Major engine problem
03-09-2015, 05:23 PM
#1
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Major engine problem
Hello,
Sadly, this is my first post. I was driving my wife's 2009 A4 Avant one the highway this weekend and EPC light came on accompanied by major vibration and loss of power. I exited the highway immediately and decided to limp home on back roads since I was only a mile away. The CEL came on during this journey and the car ran rough / shook at idle.
The next day I checked the codes and found P0300(multiple missfires),P0301(missfire cyl1),P0302(misscyl2),P0304(misscyl4). After a bit of reading I decided to replace all 4 coil packs and spark plugs. I then cleared the codes and took the car for a short spin. Car was still running rough and a new P0302 code developed. Checking the spark plugs revealed a black wet plug in #2. Swapping things around made no difference, the problem staid with cylinder 2.
The car limped to the dealer this AM and they later told my wife that there is no compression in cylinder #2 and asked (and received) permission to start taking things apart to figure out the issue.
The car has about 75Kmiles on it and has a history of oil consumption. Stage one work was done a year ago and we had initiated a new oil consumption test about a month ago. During this test the oil level didn't budge for a couple of weeks and then started to drop as usual. I strongly suspect that the dealer over filled the oil at the start of the test. The car has its services done regularly with most being done at the purchase / currently working on it dealer.
I am wondering if it is unreasonable to push AOA for some assistance ($) in what will most certainly be very expensive repair? Will the extended warranty for oil consumption issues (as a result of the lawsuit brought against Audi) be of any help? Perhaps this may depend on the nature of the engine failure? Or alternatively is there any precedent for Audi giving goodwill assistance for this type repair?
Thanks for any and all thought on this matter!
Sadly, this is my first post. I was driving my wife's 2009 A4 Avant one the highway this weekend and EPC light came on accompanied by major vibration and loss of power. I exited the highway immediately and decided to limp home on back roads since I was only a mile away. The CEL came on during this journey and the car ran rough / shook at idle.
The next day I checked the codes and found P0300(multiple missfires),P0301(missfire cyl1),P0302(misscyl2),P0304(misscyl4). After a bit of reading I decided to replace all 4 coil packs and spark plugs. I then cleared the codes and took the car for a short spin. Car was still running rough and a new P0302 code developed. Checking the spark plugs revealed a black wet plug in #2. Swapping things around made no difference, the problem staid with cylinder 2.
The car limped to the dealer this AM and they later told my wife that there is no compression in cylinder #2 and asked (and received) permission to start taking things apart to figure out the issue.
The car has about 75Kmiles on it and has a history of oil consumption. Stage one work was done a year ago and we had initiated a new oil consumption test about a month ago. During this test the oil level didn't budge for a couple of weeks and then started to drop as usual. I strongly suspect that the dealer over filled the oil at the start of the test. The car has its services done regularly with most being done at the purchase / currently working on it dealer.
I am wondering if it is unreasonable to push AOA for some assistance ($) in what will most certainly be very expensive repair? Will the extended warranty for oil consumption issues (as a result of the lawsuit brought against Audi) be of any help? Perhaps this may depend on the nature of the engine failure? Or alternatively is there any precedent for Audi giving goodwill assistance for this type repair?
Thanks for any and all thought on this matter!
03-09-2015, 06:19 PM
#2
AudiWorld Senior Member
Hello,
Sadly, this is my first post. I was driving my wife's 2009 A4 Avant one the highway this weekend and EPC light came on accompanied by major vibration and loss of power. I exited the highway immediately and decided to limp home on back roads since I was only a mile away. The CEL came on during this journey and the car ran rough / shook at idle.
The next day I checked the codes and found P0300(multiple missfires),P0301(missfire cyl1),P0302(misscyl2),P0304(misscyl4). After a bit of reading I decided to replace all 4 coil packs and spark plugs. I then cleared the codes and took the car for a short spin. Car was still running rough and a new P0302 code developed. Checking the spark plugs revealed a black wet plug in #2. Swapping things around made no difference, the problem staid with cylinder 2.
The car limped to the dealer this AM and they later told my wife that there is no compression in cylinder #2 and asked (and received) permission to start taking things apart to figure out the issue.
The car has about 75Kmiles on it and has a history of oil consumption. Stage one work was done a year ago and we had initiated a new oil consumption test about a month ago. During this test the oil level didn't budge for a couple of weeks and then started to drop as usual. I strongly suspect that the dealer over filled the oil at the start of the test. The car has its services done regularly with most being done at the purchase / currently working on it dealer.
I am wondering if it is unreasonable to push AOA for some assistance ($) in what will most certainly be very expensive repair? Will the extended warranty for oil consumption issues (as a result of the lawsuit brought against Audi) be of any help? Perhaps this may depend on the nature of the engine failure? Or alternatively is there any precedent for Audi giving goodwill assistance for this type repair?
Thanks for any and all thought on this matter!
Sadly, this is my first post. I was driving my wife's 2009 A4 Avant one the highway this weekend and EPC light came on accompanied by major vibration and loss of power. I exited the highway immediately and decided to limp home on back roads since I was only a mile away. The CEL came on during this journey and the car ran rough / shook at idle.
The next day I checked the codes and found P0300(multiple missfires),P0301(missfire cyl1),P0302(misscyl2),P0304(misscyl4). After a bit of reading I decided to replace all 4 coil packs and spark plugs. I then cleared the codes and took the car for a short spin. Car was still running rough and a new P0302 code developed. Checking the spark plugs revealed a black wet plug in #2. Swapping things around made no difference, the problem staid with cylinder 2.
The car limped to the dealer this AM and they later told my wife that there is no compression in cylinder #2 and asked (and received) permission to start taking things apart to figure out the issue.
The car has about 75Kmiles on it and has a history of oil consumption. Stage one work was done a year ago and we had initiated a new oil consumption test about a month ago. During this test the oil level didn't budge for a couple of weeks and then started to drop as usual. I strongly suspect that the dealer over filled the oil at the start of the test. The car has its services done regularly with most being done at the purchase / currently working on it dealer.
I am wondering if it is unreasonable to push AOA for some assistance ($) in what will most certainly be very expensive repair? Will the extended warranty for oil consumption issues (as a result of the lawsuit brought against Audi) be of any help? Perhaps this may depend on the nature of the engine failure? Or alternatively is there any precedent for Audi giving goodwill assistance for this type repair?
Thanks for any and all thought on this matter!
03-10-2015, 09:11 AM
#4
AudiWorld Senior Member
I would bet a lot of dealers and DIY'er put in 5 quarts instead of 5 liters. This doesn't seem to be a problem and the overfill message won't come on.
03-10-2015, 05:45 PM
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Update:
Dealer says the the exhaust valves in #2 are not sealing properly. I have yet to get a full details but they say we need a new cylinder head, camshafts(s) and other top end parts. They also claim that Audi doesn't have their dealers rebuild cylinder heads (at least for this version of the 2.0T) engine but rather replace with new. Cost for the parts is $4200 with tax! Oddly, they are picking up all the labor costs.
The dealer has reassured us that these repairs will in no way effect Audi's decisions about any oil consumption issues. We have pretty much decided to go ahead with the repairs and to then see what comes of a new oil consumption test. We are at 75kmiles now and are thus very close to the 80k milestone where it may be much more difficult to get Audi to cover the costs for stage 2 oil consumption repairs. I have serious concerns that if we don't get Audi to do the stage 2 repairs now that they will eventually be needed and we will be SOL. Basically if we don't qualify for the stage 2 work before 80K, we will most likely dump the car and move on; probably to a different manufacturer.
As to the oil consumption test. Once the repairs are made, they are going to re-initiate the test. This time they say they are going to precisely measure the before and then after 1000 miles. I will get more info as to how exactly things are being measured. Best way I can think of is to drain, measure exact amount required to fill and then drain again at whatever miles they are testing it to.
I don't doubt that there is a message for gross over filling but how much extra does it take to set it off. I have to be suspicious when, prior to the recent test, we were watching the level drop steadily, and once the test began the level miraculously staid the same for a couple of weeks and then started to drop again as usual. Overfill (even by as little as a .25 quart) seems like the most logical explanation to me.
Overall pretty disappointed with this kind of failure at this mileage but Audi did show us at least some love . . .
Dealer says the the exhaust valves in #2 are not sealing properly. I have yet to get a full details but they say we need a new cylinder head, camshafts(s) and other top end parts. They also claim that Audi doesn't have their dealers rebuild cylinder heads (at least for this version of the 2.0T) engine but rather replace with new. Cost for the parts is $4200 with tax! Oddly, they are picking up all the labor costs.
The dealer has reassured us that these repairs will in no way effect Audi's decisions about any oil consumption issues. We have pretty much decided to go ahead with the repairs and to then see what comes of a new oil consumption test. We are at 75kmiles now and are thus very close to the 80k milestone where it may be much more difficult to get Audi to cover the costs for stage 2 oil consumption repairs. I have serious concerns that if we don't get Audi to do the stage 2 repairs now that they will eventually be needed and we will be SOL. Basically if we don't qualify for the stage 2 work before 80K, we will most likely dump the car and move on; probably to a different manufacturer.
As to the oil consumption test. Once the repairs are made, they are going to re-initiate the test. This time they say they are going to precisely measure the before and then after 1000 miles. I will get more info as to how exactly things are being measured. Best way I can think of is to drain, measure exact amount required to fill and then drain again at whatever miles they are testing it to.
I don't doubt that there is a message for gross over filling but how much extra does it take to set it off. I have to be suspicious when, prior to the recent test, we were watching the level drop steadily, and once the test began the level miraculously staid the same for a couple of weeks and then started to drop again as usual. Overfill (even by as little as a .25 quart) seems like the most logical explanation to me.
Overall pretty disappointed with this kind of failure at this mileage but Audi did show us at least some love . . .
03-10-2015, 09:57 PM
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Update:
Dealer says the the exhaust valves in #2 are not sealing properly. I have yet to get a full details but they say we need a new cylinder head, camshafts(s) and other top end parts. They also claim that Audi doesn't have their dealers rebuild cylinder heads (at least for this version of the 2.0T) engine but rather replace with new. Cost for the parts is $4200 with tax! Oddly, they are picking up all the labor costs.
The dealer has reassured us that these repairs will in no way effect Audi's decisions about any oil consumption issues. We have pretty much decided to go ahead with the repairs and to then see what comes of a new oil consumption test. We are at 75kmiles now and are thus very close to the 80k milestone where it may be much more difficult to get Audi to cover the costs for stage 2 oil consumption repairs. I have serious concerns that if we don't get Audi to do the stage 2 repairs now that they will eventually be needed and we will be SOL. Basically if we don't qualify for the stage 2 work before 80K, we will most likely dump the car and move on; probably to a different manufacturer.
As to the oil consumption test. Once the repairs are made, they are going to re-initiate the test. This time they say they are going to precisely measure the before and then after 1000 miles. I will get more info as to how exactly things are being measured. Best way I can think of is to drain, measure exact amount required to fill and then drain again at whatever miles they are testing it to.
I don't doubt that there is a message for gross over filling but how much extra does it take to set it off. I have to be suspicious when, prior to the recent test, we were watching the level drop steadily, and once the test began the level miraculously staid the same for a couple of weeks and then started to drop again as usual. Overfill (even by as little as a .25 quart) seems like the most logical explanation to me.
Overall pretty disappointed with this kind of failure at this mileage but Audi did show us at least some love . . .
Dealer says the the exhaust valves in #2 are not sealing properly. I have yet to get a full details but they say we need a new cylinder head, camshafts(s) and other top end parts. They also claim that Audi doesn't have their dealers rebuild cylinder heads (at least for this version of the 2.0T) engine but rather replace with new. Cost for the parts is $4200 with tax! Oddly, they are picking up all the labor costs.
The dealer has reassured us that these repairs will in no way effect Audi's decisions about any oil consumption issues. We have pretty much decided to go ahead with the repairs and to then see what comes of a new oil consumption test. We are at 75kmiles now and are thus very close to the 80k milestone where it may be much more difficult to get Audi to cover the costs for stage 2 oil consumption repairs. I have serious concerns that if we don't get Audi to do the stage 2 repairs now that they will eventually be needed and we will be SOL. Basically if we don't qualify for the stage 2 work before 80K, we will most likely dump the car and move on; probably to a different manufacturer.
As to the oil consumption test. Once the repairs are made, they are going to re-initiate the test. This time they say they are going to precisely measure the before and then after 1000 miles. I will get more info as to how exactly things are being measured. Best way I can think of is to drain, measure exact amount required to fill and then drain again at whatever miles they are testing it to.
I don't doubt that there is a message for gross over filling but how much extra does it take to set it off. I have to be suspicious when, prior to the recent test, we were watching the level drop steadily, and once the test began the level miraculously staid the same for a couple of weeks and then started to drop again as usual. Overfill (even by as little as a .25 quart) seems like the most logical explanation to me.
Overall pretty disappointed with this kind of failure at this mileage but Audi did show us at least some love . . .
This approach should also have no impact on the oil consumption issue since it is a piston/ring problem, and it's already under review.
03-11-2015, 08:02 AM
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Since they are already pulling the top end of the engine, I wonder if you could convince them to go ahead and do the repair for the oil consumption - pistons and rings, rather than put it together and then pull it apart again? It might be worth suggesting it.
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03-11-2015, 01:17 PM
#8
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I agree and was going to suggest that too. It would be pretty simple to replace the pistons now as when they have to in the short near future they'll have to pull the head again.
03-11-2015, 02:54 PM
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I spoke to the dealer today and they backed off a bit on their assessment. It ends up that so far they have done a leak down test, removed the valve cover and used a borascope to examine the cylinder. The exhaust valves are not sealing but they don't really know exactly why yet or what the cause was. The $4200 quote is for the worst case but I am hopeful that they can at least reuse the camshaft(s) and other parts that don't come with the "complete" head. The camshafts are about $1000 all by themselves. The service rep has said that the issue is not carbon build up but I have my doubts. They are ordering the parts and once they have everything for the "worst case" repair, they are going to start the real disassembly. I will make sure to visit to see exactly what they find. Bottom line is that the root cause for the problem(s) needs to be found whether it is a faulty part, lubrication based or over fueling from a leaky injector etc.
As to doing the stage 2 oil consumption repair . . .I have already mentioned it but Audi's procedure is pretty clear that they need to actually confirm that there is an oil consumption issue with testing before they will authorize new pistons and rings. Kind of a ridiculous waste of work but I can understand their perspective.
As to doing the stage 2 oil consumption repair . . .I have already mentioned it but Audi's procedure is pretty clear that they need to actually confirm that there is an oil consumption issue with testing before they will authorize new pistons and rings. Kind of a ridiculous waste of work but I can understand their perspective.
03-12-2015, 04:58 AM
#10
AudiWorld Senior Member
I spoke to the dealer today and they backed off a bit on their assessment. It ends up that so far they have done a leak down test, removed the valve cover and used a borascope to examine the cylinder. The exhaust valves are not sealing but they don't really know exactly why yet or what the cause was. The $4200 quote is for the worst case but I am hopeful that they can at least reuse the camshaft(s) and other parts that don't come with the "complete" head. The camshafts are about $1000 all by themselves. The service rep has said that the issue is not carbon build up but I have my doubts. They are ordering the parts and once they have everything for the "worst case" repair, they are going to start the real disassembly. I will make sure to visit to see exactly what they find. Bottom line is that the root cause for the problem(s) needs to be found whether it is a faulty part, lubrication based or over fueling from a leaky injector etc.
As to doing the stage 2 oil consumption repair . . .I have already mentioned it but Audi's procedure is pretty clear that they need to actually confirm that there is an oil consumption issue with testing before they will authorize new pistons and rings. Kind of a ridiculous waste of work but I can understand their perspective.
As to doing the stage 2 oil consumption repair . . .I have already mentioned it but Audi's procedure is pretty clear that they need to actually confirm that there is an oil consumption issue with testing before they will authorize new pistons and rings. Kind of a ridiculous waste of work but I can understand their perspective.