Audi Maintenance Intervals
 

I'm thinking about branching at from my previous Toyotas - Prius and Camry, and now trying an Audi A4. One of the things that concerns me are the maintenance and repair costs. My Camry made it ~130k miles with no repairs, and little maintenance, and the Prius to 150k miles, without one single repair. The prius was on the original brakes, and had the plugs changed at 120k miles. I think the Camry plugs were changed at 100k+ and one set of brakes around 90k. Audi maintenance schedule says plugs every 40k miles, and change brake fluid every 2 years. Why is it Toyota brake fluid can last indefinitely, and Audi cannot? And why does Audi use lousy spark plugs too?

If these costs are your primary focus, stick with an Asian car.

Couple of things here -- first, any car manufacturer suggest brake pad changes ever 30-60k miles, regardless of make. Additionally for sparkplugs, ~60-80k is good for those, again, with any make or model. Sounds a lot to me like you've never pushed the envelope for performance with any vehicle you've owned. With that in mind, it seems that you stretched every last bit of life out of both of these instances, which is excellent that nothing failed on you. In the Audi, the assumption is that you will drive it a bit harder than either of that aforementioned vehicles based not only on the technology put into it, but also the fact that it's designed with harsh conditions in mind. With more intensive driving comes more intensive wear -- I think you see where I'm going with this.

Point being that the Audi will outperform, in spades, either one of those vehicles, as it was intended to do. As such, it requires a higher level of care for the vehicle. It sounds like you came from more economy based cars, which is fine and well, but do NOT expect that out of a vehicle that will do laps around either of those cars in comfort, style, and performance.

Also, for what it's worth, brake fluid is susceptible to getting water within it, and thus, reducing its boiling point, rendering it ineffective. You outta be the judge of when to change yours based on your area. Here's an article to check out for reference. https://www.cars.com/articles/how-of...1420680336417/

I've been doing maintenance on my own cars for over 30 years and have never seen a manufacturer recommend brake pad replacement based on mileage, before they get to the recommended thickness. Can you provide a link to a mfg's maintenance schedule. (With several SCCA titles, I assure you I haven't babied my cars).
OP, if your starting opinion is that Audi makes lousy stuff and doesn't know what it's doing, "branching out" probably isn't a good option.


fwiw, Toyota brake fluid definitely can "last indefinitely", but it almost assuredly isn't up to spec after 3-4 years. The Prius schedule calls for fluids to be inspected at every 5,000 mile interval. If your professional mechanic never changed brake fluid - shame on him//her. You also seem to mixing brakes with brake fluid - two very different maintenance items.

100% agreed, and I don't mean to confuse the fact that brake PADS should be inspected and replaced accordingly. Simply put -- if you're down with economy car maintenance, buy and economy car. If you'd like to try something a bit more high end, then prepare for higher-end costs. Really as simple as that.

I understand that driving a car more aggressively would cause the brake pads to wear faster, and thus need more frequent replacement... but does more aggressive driving cause the brake fluid to degrade (absorb water?) faster? Until the 120k service, I had no maintenance done other than oil, tires, and a few filters on the Prius. The oil place checked the quantity and quality of the various fluids, and never recommended changing anything. If, hypothetically, I drove the Audi A4 like a grandmother, and like I drove my camry or prius, why would it need more maintenance than those cars? According to Beezy... "the fact that it's designed with harsh conditions in mind." If it was truly designed for harsh conditions, but wasn't driven harshly, shouldn't it need very little maintenance? One of the reasons I am looking at Audi but not BMW or Mercedes, is because Audi seems to have a better reputation from a repair or maintenance perspective than those other german cars... and I do like the way it drives as a nice change from generic white bread toyota....

Brake fluid needs to be replaced regardless of driving style or vehicle. It is hygroscopic and overtime it will absorb water and moisture reducing the boiling point. Boiling brake fluid means no braking power. There is no getting around that, over-engineered or not.

Can you drive the entire life of the car without ever changing the brake fluid? Sure, absolutely, but in the time that you need to use the brakes in an emergency maneuver, the biting point where the brakes would engage is elongated as water is compressible; hydraulic fluid is not. You also run the risk of causing corrosion in your brake hardware. It's a lose-lose situation.

Very few Prius (Prii?) probably ever have their brake fluid boil just due to the way they are typically driven. However in my opinion many more A4 and especially S4 would encounter this problem. Water when converted to steam expands 1700 times the volume of its liquid state and this forces brake fluid back towards the brake fluid reservoir and away from the area it is needed most, directly behind the piston pushing on the super heated brke pad, and so even the tiniest amount of water behind the piston will cause serious problems in braking efficiency. Additionally the resulting rust will wreak havoc on the brake system and the ABS system.
i change brake fluid every two years in all my vehicles, transmission fluid and coolant at 75% of manufacturers recommendations.

Have you actually driven an A4 you're interested in yet?

I've had my B9 A4 for about 14 months now, and I still have fun when I punch it, and it's only an A4, not an S4 or RS4! I could only imagine how much more fun they are! It's definitely designed more towards the performance/technology aspect, but that's the price you pay to play.

The engine and transmission are great, I think you really need to drive one if you haven't already before you worry about the costs of ownership and decide if the increase in performance/technology is worth the increase in cost.

arf1410, my advice to you is to get a Lexus. From what I see, you don’t need performance while prefer to have luxury and low maintenance. A Lexus is perfectly fit your need. I am almost certain you will regret getting an Audi, or BMW or Mercedes.

OP doesn’t sound like an Audi person. OP would do better with an Asian car.

I came from all Asian cars but I’ve never driven them as “economy cars” and am also a car enthusiast. If you are an enthusiast and love to feel the thrill of driving while also being in comfort and style, then you will LOVE the A4. I don’t mind doing things myself like brake pads, plugs, coils, and filters because it gives me the satisfaction. So if that’s you, then again, you will LOVE the A4. But if you are not inclined to do those things and you are not wanting to pay the dealer to do those things regurarly to keep your car in top performance shape, then you will constantly worry about it and it will take away from the joy of ownership. Sh*t, I’m at 19k miles and thinking about replacing my plugs just because it will make me feel better :)

I have no idea how you got 90k with one set of brakes. I’ve been driving 18k a year for 25 years, all Acura/Honda and have never had that type of wear. I probably changed them every 2-3 years which would be 35K— 60k.

I just bought an A4 3 weeks ago. First Euro car ever. I bought the Audi care for $1000 which I baked into my cost when I was negotiated. Do some research and test drive. An Audi is not a Toyota or Honda.

For what it's worth, my daughter's old Subaru Forester required brake fluid change at something like 60,000 miles. It is my sense of things that some manufacturers publish a low maintenance schedule so as not to scare buyers away, then leave it to the dealers to sell the owner on various maintenance procedures when they have you captive.

All cars should have the brake fluid replaced every two years regardless of mileage. Audi brakes do last a long time depending on driving style. My B8 A4 still had the factory front pads at 82k with some pad left, the rears lasted to 71k. The only unscheduled repair the car had was a water pump, a known weak point on that car.

/1/ During the 1 time my Prius was taken to the dealer for maintenance, at about 130k miles, brakes still had 70% life left.

/2/ Have driven the A4 twice, and really like it. In my younger days, drove a couple of Rabbits and really liked the way the VWs drive. Had a brand new BMW 330(?) for two weeks as a rental car in Majorca last summer. Google for road pictures if you want to see a place that was made to drive a german car. I like the size, the mpg, the AWD, and the technology of the A4, though am a bit frustrated that I do need to get the prestige level to get current technology. Couldn't imagine buying a new car without adaptive cruise control and other safety features.

/3/ have test driven several Lexus's … the new UX hybrid was lousy... The NX300h was nice, but the infotainment is god aweful, and no HUD available. The ES series is a bit large and doesn't have a fold down rear seat... I need to be able to get my bicycle in the trunk. A4 has a decent size trunk, with a LARGE pass-thru. IS is mostly unchanged from 2012, and gets lousy mileage.

A hybrid with regenerative braking will naturally have brake pads/rotors that last a long time simply because they aren't used all the time to stop the car.

1 - As someone else said, the pad life is partly because of regenerative braking but I will add that there is a human behavior at play as well. If a car isn't capable of accelerating with urgency, its pilot will rarely feel compelled to stop it aggressively either. People tend to drive their cars with an equilibrium of sorts and prioritize a smoothness. The Prius economy minder / eco score / whatever it's called also rewards slow stops by giving you a higher score than if you slam on the brakes, because the former translates to fuel savings.

2 - With you on all fronts. It's frustrating I had to elect over $10,000 in options on a car with a $50K base price to get the same technology that comes standard on every Toyota Corolla, but I did it on my S4 and I don't regret it at all. Audi is behind the 8 ball in this regard and I am confident that this scenario will only last a couple more years. They will be required to include these assistance options as standard if they want to stay competitive; that moment has pretty much already come with the example I just gave. We're in a weird time. Also those Majorca roads look beautiful...

3 - Lexus has always been behind the Germans. So has Acura (to a lesser extent). But those cars are for the most part sheep in wolves clothing; I recall fitting an Acura TSX-S rear sway bar + bushings to my Honda Accord V6 Coupe to reduce body roll about 8 years ago, because that bar was a direct OEM fitment; both cars shared the same chassis.

I find all of a4 maintenance to be reasonable with the exception of Plugs and DSG flush every 40k.

Just based on my observation and it could just be me, but I just do not see Audi's broken down on the side of the road or getting towed. I think by the manufacture including simple things like plug changes and belt changes in the maintenance intervals it is just preventative maintenance. From my perspective I would sooner do that than get a little more mileage out of them and then find the car won't start. Then you are looking at a tow bill, diagnostic fee's and then the replacement of said parts which would add up to more money in the end run. You also have to think of the length of time they are going now between intervals. Audi in Canada is once a year of 15,000kms for your oil service. when I go for a normal service it's about $250CAD. I had a 2015 Mazda 3 before owning Audi's and I had to take that in every 4 months or 8,000kms for an oil change and that was just over $100, so really in the end run the service isn't all that much more expensive. Yes the 60,000kms service on the A4 is going to cost me $1050CAD plus tax for the oil, DSG flush and plugs, but that is a normal thing for any cars with a DSG transmission. Even Hyundai is using DSG's in their cars now and require flush's. They are automated manual transmissions with friction clutches that will wear over time just like a brake pad (though not as quickly obviously) but all that worn material is in the DSG fluid and should get changed so it doesn't clog or wear out other parts prematurely. Overall I don't think that the maintenance cost of the A4 being that it is considered to be a performance sedan is all that much higher than other vehicles.

My two cents about OP's concern, if you are worried about maintenance costs compared to a Japanese car or any more econo minded car then buying an Audi probably isn't for you. The idea of having a higher end luxury vehicle comes with it's costs and if you are concerned about those costs maybe re evaluate your options. Also keep in mind with the Audi you will be putting in higher grade fuel that will cost more over time compared to your Camry or especially the Prius did.

Plus they are hardly ever going the speed limit, the need to stop is less. However, if they ever do need to stop, they have a device called the floormat which apparently blocks the brake pedal, further saving the pads from wear.

OP said:
"The oil place checked the quantity and quality of the various fluids" So you serviced the car at an Oil Place? Is an Oil Place like a jiffy lube ?? I think you'd be better served by another Asian car.. New Genesis G70 or KIA Stinger..Acura TLX, Infiniti, Lexus

The one real maintenance on the prius at 120k miles was done at the dealership. Within reason, I am willing to spend a bit more on maintenance on an A4... but am still a bit unclear, are these additional costs due to the way an Audi is typically driven, or due to the way it is designed? And from reading a variety of posts, it seems like some think the A4 is a Ferrari, rather than a comfortable family sedan...

You are way overthinking this. The Audi A4 is a solid reliable car that will treat you well if you are conscious about doing the same in return.

Follow the maintenance intervals by either a) bringing it into your local Audi dealership b) finding a reputable independent shop that specializes in VAG cars or c) do the work yourself.

I personally bring my B9 to an indie shop every 5k miles for an oil change and use AudiCare for standard interval servicing.

In complete honesty, if you want to compare an Audi A4 and a Prius, you have no business buying an Audi. I have owned both. They could not be more different in every aspect

Will the 5K oil change provide additional benefits as compared to the 10k/1 year oil change?

I have Audicare for regular maintenance.

Actually, that was in the past, the future is looking A4/A5, Lexus nx300h, or the simple safe, but dull choice of a camry hybrid... and looking like I can get the used 2018 prestige CPO with <10k miles for about same price as top equipped camry or 2018 NX.

You always have the option to lease. Throw in AudiCare which bumps the residual up 1% and your maintenance will be covered for the period of your lease. 3 years from you can then turn it in for the new, latest and greatest A4.

There are threads upon threads on this already. It’s entirely up to you the owner. If I leased, I would go every 10k. However I buy my cars and feel that 5k is as long as I am comfortable going on the same oil based on my driving conditions.

I'm with you on the Asian cars. Coming from Honda's which seem to be bullet proof, Audi's tend to be fussy or finicky if you will. I agree the brake fluid would likely go 100,000 miles with no issues. Plugs probably won't make a huge performance issue so I would go longer as well. However, if you want to follow the regime you can. Most of the people here have deep pockets to pay repairs or add on's and love the performance of the Audi's. When they work, they work very well. When they don't they will cost you $$$. It's my experience with Audi's so far anyway with a number of issues and less than 60,000 miles on the odometer. They are like thoroughbred horses in a way. Sleek, fast but make you have a vet on call just in case. Don't listen to the haters here.

I think the future is electric and so does Audi from what I read going electric and all. Test drove a Tesla 3 last week. Blows my A4 away from a 0-60 perspective. Less maintenance too. But as a new product, probably wait a couple years before you dive in. I think there will always be a niche for petroleum powered cars well into the future and Audi's will be there in some form.

I'm with you on this... though Tesla as a whole concerns me a bit. Though we typically keep cars for 10+ years... thinking about an CPO Audi ~5k miles (~$10-15k less than new), keep it 4-5 years, then get rid of it before ~75k miles ... and then go electric or plug-in hybrid... Lots of stuff in the pipeline over the next few years...

Having come to Audi from a succession of Acuras (the beloved Gen III -- 04-08) TLs (and yes the screen name isn't just a wish I have a minty /94 NSX) I couldn't agree with your post more. My /15 A6 3.0T has had a litany of issues in 3.5 years/35,000 miles, all fortunately handled under warranty, the most serious of which was engine surgery to replace substandard upper timing chain tensioners and I'm now looking at replacing rear rotors (again) because they are starting to groove and warp. Wife's /18 A4 developing a couple of issues now after 6 months that I'll handle at 10K service. After the experience with the A6 (which I will keep no more than another 2 years/25K miles) I smartly leased the A4. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the cars -- very nice driving machines but not like the Hondas/Toyotas of years past that were so reliable and had very low running costs. I smartly kept one of the old TLs -- 04 with 172,000 miles -- still drives great and no issues of any substance -- certainly no engine surgery!

Most important thing is to go in with eyes open and not have unrealistic expectations (though I would have thought Audi had figured out how to design a proper timing chain tensioner by now). If there is another Audi in our garage it will be leased and under warranty at all times. As for electric seems like they are getting all the press these days. I agree -- not quite ready for prime time.

Best,
Jeff

Put some money aside for repair if you want a CPO A4 to go 4 -5 years afterwards. It’s very common that German cars become a money pit after manufacture warranty period.

I guess I am one of those guys that has had equal luck with Audi’s and Japanese cars. I had an Accord, which was never fun to drive, it was reliable but I only kept it until the 3 year lease was up. We also had two Honda Pilots. The first needed a transmission overhaul at 80k, we traded it for another one and that one started having a litany of problems starting around 120k - Radiator, alternator, O2 sensor, another radiator and so on. I had an UrS6 which I bought at 100k and sold at 140k. It needed spark modules and that was about it. My last A6 I bought with 40k and sold at 140k, the only thing I had to do other than brakes was a door lock module and a couple of headlight bulbs.

I did have one A6 with a wonky torque converter which I decided to trade rather than fix at 110,000 miles.

On all my cars I do all the maintenance and most of the repairs after the warranty/Audi care expires. This allows me to not feel guilty about repair costs.

One thing about Audi’s, Mercedes, BMW in general is that they are designed to go 130+ mph on the autobahn so they tend to have better brakes with bigger rotors and pads and as such brake jobs cost more because parts are bigger and higher quality. Talk about warped rotors /brake vibration - Honda Accords are notorious for this and my Accord was no different, at 20k miles they started to pulsate. I think that Audi’s are better as long as you stick to OEM parts. The only time I had a problem on my Audi with pulsation was when I bought aftermarket, and that turned out to be the pads depositing on the rotors. When I went back to OEM pads the problem resolved itself in 500 miles.

Pick the car you like driving, take care of it and it should be reliable. Don’t overthink the Audi maintenance costs.

Honda's quality and reliability degraded in the past 10 years or so. I had an 05 Pilot and need lots of maintenance works (interval is much more frequent than most cars especially with the 4 wheel drive) and had trouble with coolant passage at ~60k, Torque converter at 65k, Transmission to radiator connector broke resulted a new radiator replacement at 97k and finally the transmission died at 120k. I have my current 16 Pilot for about 4 years 45 k miles now. It already had one roof side rail cover recall, radio tuner replacement. For the past 4 years, I had done 6 times oil, two times rear differential fluid, one times transmission fluid and one times transfer case fluid as well as brake fluid changes all followed the manufacture's interval . Thank god I was doing all these myself. Otherwise, quit a bit of money there.
My wife had a Camry for 8 years 96 k miles without single issue. Regular oil changes at 5k and one set of brake pads plus brake fluid are the only maintenance done. She has her current Lexus RX350 for 4.5 years 45k miles now and had no single issue besides regular oil change each 10k miles plus one brake fluid change.
So, from our experience, Toyota autos are much more reliable and trouble free.

My thoughts with a CPO, as it provides one additional year of warranty, for unlimited miles, after the expiration of the original warranty...

but from reading these posts... I do wish the Lexus NX "cockpit" had the features of the Audi A4 Prestige ... realistically, comfort and quietness is more important to me than performance... as I'll be coming from a prius that I drove like a grandmother, so anything will be a performance upgrade!

You will absolutely spend more maintaining an Audi. Assuming you followed the maintenance schedule for your prior car, I can tell you the Audi will require things done much more frequently. I don’t recommend buying the car and then failing to do the preventative maintenance. You can find the service schedule online. Read it and see if you can tolerate the thought of 2 year brake fluid flushes, 4 years transmission fluid changes, etc. If that doesn’t cause you concern then I think the A4 would make you quite happy.

This has been mentioned before but apparently not everyone got the message. Brake fluid should be changed on ALL cars EVERY 2-3 years. Brake fluid is hygroscopic - it absorbs water - this is true of all cars and all brake fluid. You cannot stop this from happening just because you buy a Japanese car. The water in the fluid will lower its boiling point so if you need to use brakes in an emergency while coming down out of the mountains or multiple stops from highway speeds due to traffic the water in the fluid can boil and the pedal will go to the floor and you will not be able to stop. The water will also rust brake components which can also be dangerous.

This post makes much more sense to me now. I pulled up a maintenance schedule for a 2015 Prius. No mention anywhere of replacing brake fluid. Spark plugs don't get changed out until 120,000 miles. It's basically oil and filter changes and tire rotations for the life of the car. I'm uncertain whether the drivetrain and various systems of a hybrid makes this possible or if Toyota has decided the car can function for that long with minimal care.

OP, the Audi maintenance schedule looks a lot different. I'll fall back on my prior comment to have you take a look and see if this is a reality you can deal with. What I don't recommend would be to buy the car and then decide to follow the maintenance schedule out of the Toyota book. That's a recipe for a post from you saying what trouble the car has given you. Preventative maintenance will help you prevent issues down the road.

I've been looking at the Audi maintenance schedule to, so let's switch from brakes to plugs. A4 says plugs at 40k miles, A3 says plugs at 80k miles. What's the difference?