Oil and filter change
10-27-2016, 03:31 PM
#1
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
Oil and filter change
Saw this in another thread and thought I'd start a thread dedicated to it.
My concern is primarily if you think the 10k oil change is adequate or not. I know that several manufacturers are going to the 10k oil change (Honda, Toyota, etc.) with synthetic oil but I am still a little leery of it.
In that same vein, I called a few local dealers and they all seem to use a different oil. Castrol 5w-40w synthetic, Mobil One 5w-30w...... Any recommendations on that?
What filter do you recommend?
I was thinking about getting an oil extractor and changing the oil myself on the 5k mark.
My concern is primarily if you think the 10k oil change is adequate or not. I know that several manufacturers are going to the 10k oil change (Honda, Toyota, etc.) with synthetic oil but I am still a little leery of it.
In that same vein, I called a few local dealers and they all seem to use a different oil. Castrol 5w-40w synthetic, Mobil One 5w-30w...... Any recommendations on that?
What filter do you recommend?
I was thinking about getting an oil extractor and changing the oil myself on the 5k mark.
10-27-2016, 04:30 PM
#2
AudiWorld Super User
Well, they had a 10k interval for quite some period of time assuming the correct oil is used.
You can use VAG 502.00 or 504.00 oil. The old spec, 502.00, is more robust and will handle a 10k interval better than the newer oil which is low-SAPS.
I like Mahle filters. There are a few other good ones.
You can use VAG 502.00 or 504.00 oil. The old spec, 502.00, is more robust and will handle a 10k interval better than the newer oil which is low-SAPS.
I like Mahle filters. There are a few other good ones.
10-27-2016, 04:41 PM
#3
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For reference, I own a 167k mile 1.8t. Owned it since new. Changed oil ever 5 to 7k miles. Used 502 spec Mobil 1 0w40. Mahle or Mann filters (the larger one).
When I pulled the valve cover to replace the gasket the underside was spotless save for a bit of discoloration from the oil. No coking no mud, no sludge.
The engine will far outlast the car with proper maintenance.
YMMV
When I pulled the valve cover to replace the gasket the underside was spotless save for a bit of discoloration from the oil. No coking no mud, no sludge.
The engine will far outlast the car with proper maintenance.
YMMV
10-27-2016, 05:00 PM
#4
AudiWorld Super User
I'm certainly no expert when it comes to things mechanical and engine maintenance but my thoughts are - I always follow manufacturers recommendations, never skip the services. However as regards oil and filter changes, if I intend on owning the car, I will change the oil in between scheduled services. If I am leasing, then only recommended oil and filter changes. My thinking is that I do lots of city/stop and go driving and changing more often doesn't cost that much anyhow and I'd rather error on the safer side.
10-27-2016, 06:54 PM
#5
AudiWorld Member
Take a look at a tread that I wrote a while ago, I did my first change at 5000 kms, the oil was quite black. Now, I probably will be changing it every 10,000 km which is more often than recomnended but I do intend to keep my A4 for at least 6 to 10 years. I listed all parts that I used.
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a4-b9-platform-discussion-212/diy-oil-change-oil-level-2906856/#post24859386
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a4-b9-platform-discussion-212/diy-oil-change-oil-level-2906856/#post24859386
10-27-2016, 07:10 PM
#6
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
Take a look at a tread that I wrote a while ago, I did my first change at 5000 kms, the oil was quite black. Now, I probably will be changing it every 10,000 km which is more often than recomnended but I do intend to keep my A4 for at least 6 to 10 years. I listed all parts that I used.
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a4-.../#post24859386
https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a4-.../#post24859386
10-27-2016, 08:19 PM
#7
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The issue that VW/AUDI has had with the 502.00 spec going 10k miles is turbo deposits and oil consumption. The oil consumption combined with the full SAPS has lead to the phenomena called low-speed pre-ignition or LSPI in turbocharged gasoline direct injected engines. The low speed refers to low engine speed, 1,200 to 2,200 RPM. This has also caused warranty claims for not just VW/AUDI but BMW, MB, Ford, Chevy, Hyundai and Kia. This LSPI event is much more catastrophic than detonation or knock. It literally will blow the piston skirt through the engine block or crack the piston with one LSPI event. It has been shown through research papers by Toyota and the Univeristy of Leeds that calcium levels in motor oils have a direct impact on LSPI events. A full SAPS oil will have higher levels of calcium than a low SAPS oil.
The 504.00 spec has much tighter limits for oil evaporation and other engine tests including turbo deposits. It should have no problem going 10K miles on a oil change. While it does have lower SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus, and Sulfur), it is still more robust than the North American spec API SN and will provide excellent protection. The 504.00 spec also requires the use of PAO to meet all of the testing requirements. 502.00 spec oils can be made without PAO. Most of the 502.00 oils on the market are made without PAO. That's why the Mobil 1 ESP and the Castrol EDGE Professional 504.00 oils are $12-14 a quart while the other 502.00 engine oils are $7-9 a quart.
A number of brands will be launching new U.S. manufactured 504.00 approved oils soon. This should help drive down some of the costs since Mobil 1 ESP and Castrol Edge are shipped from Europe to the U.S.
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10-27-2016, 11:37 PM
#8
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The issue that VW/AUDI has had with the 502.00 spec going 10k miles is turbo deposits and oil consumption. The oil consumption combined with the full SAPS has lead to the phenomena called low-speed pre-ignition or LSPI in turbocharged gasoline direct injected engines. The low speed refers to low engine speed, 1,200 to 2,200 RPM. This has also caused warranty claims for not just VW/AUDI but BMW, MB, Ford, Chevy, Hyundai and Kia. This LSPI event is much more catastrophic than detonation or knock. It literally will blow the piston skirt through the engine block or crack the piston with one LSPI event. It has been shown through research papers by Toyota and the Univeristy of Leeds that calcium levels in motor oils have a direct impact on LSPI events. A full SAPS oil will have higher levels of calcium than a low SAPS oil.
The 504.00 spec has much tighter limits for oil evaporation and other engine tests including turbo deposits. It should have no problem going 10K miles on a oil change. While it does have lower SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus, and Sulfur), it is still more robust than the North American spec API SN and will provide excellent protection. The 504.00 spec also requires the use of PAO to meet all of the testing requirements. 502.00 spec oils can be made without PAO. Most of the 502.00 oils on the market are made without PAO. That's why the Mobil 1 ESP and the Castrol EDGE Professional 504.00 oils are $12-14 a quart while the other 502.00 engine oils are $7-9 a quart.
A number of brands will be launching new U.S. manufactured 504.00 approved oils soon. This should help drive down some of the costs since Mobil 1 ESP and Castrol Edge are shipped from Europe to the U.S.
The 504.00 spec has much tighter limits for oil evaporation and other engine tests including turbo deposits. It should have no problem going 10K miles on a oil change. While it does have lower SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus, and Sulfur), it is still more robust than the North American spec API SN and will provide excellent protection. The 504.00 spec also requires the use of PAO to meet all of the testing requirements. 502.00 spec oils can be made without PAO. Most of the 502.00 oils on the market are made without PAO. That's why the Mobil 1 ESP and the Castrol EDGE Professional 504.00 oils are $12-14 a quart while the other 502.00 engine oils are $7-9 a quart.
A number of brands will be launching new U.S. manufactured 504.00 approved oils soon. This should help drive down some of the costs since Mobil 1 ESP and Castrol Edge are shipped from Europe to the U.S.
And 504 is definitely a newer spec than 502, but 502 was also revised within the past decade to make it more stringent. I believe the point of 504 was to meet Euro IV emissions standards while still providing low-SAPS compatibility for diesel engines with DPFs.It's my understanding that 40 weight oils are excluded from 504, so oils like Castrol and Mobil 1 0w-40 FS (which is now based on GTL basestocks instead of visom) are classified as 502 by default (along with the fact that they're full-SAPS oils). Of course, not all 502 oils are created equally, so it's worth looking at UOAs and VOAs for each one and evaluating them individually. If an oil meets a whole myriad of stricter specs like MB 229.5, Porsche A40, and BMW LL-01 in addition to 502 then I wouldn't hesitate to use it. It also helps that Castrol 0w-40 and M1 0w-40 FS are inexpensive and the best quality oils that are widely available at places like Wal-Mart.
I don't know enough about LSPI issues on the EA888, but if you want the peace of mind of a fully PAO oil with good NOACK, high TBN, high HTHS, while still having a very low calcium content, I'd strongly consider Motul X-cess 5w-40. It's a 502/505 oil, but it easily has the properties you're looking for from 504 oils. The only problem is that it's pretty tricky to find locally in the US, but it can be ordered from Amazon in 5L jugs for around $35.
Last edited by Arcoril; 10-27-2016 at 11:42 PM.
10-28-2016, 03:08 AM
#9
AudiWorld Super User
There's a reason Audi and other Euro mfrs have backed away from the low-SAPS oils for use in the USA at this point in time: sulfur content and ethanol and the interaction with low-SAPS formulation.
There's no perfect oil, no silver bullet. On paper, the 504/507 oils should be better, but they've got their own issues when used with the fuel sold in the USA.
Both Mobil 1 0W40 or the Castrol equivalent are fine 502.00 choices for gas-fueled cars operated in the USA. Both are referred to as full synthetic. Both are inexpensive and easily obtained.
Look at the UOAs for the 504/507 oil. The oil's TBN is very low before 10k miles. Heck, the TBN on these new oils is significantly lower when the oil is new, as to be expected.
Oktt4000, are you an Audi owner in the USA?
There's no perfect oil, no silver bullet. On paper, the 504/507 oils should be better, but they've got their own issues when used with the fuel sold in the USA.
Both Mobil 1 0W40 or the Castrol equivalent are fine 502.00 choices for gas-fueled cars operated in the USA. Both are referred to as full synthetic. Both are inexpensive and easily obtained.
Look at the UOAs for the 504/507 oil. The oil's TBN is very low before 10k miles. Heck, the TBN on these new oils is significantly lower when the oil is new, as to be expected.
Oktt4000, are you an Audi owner in the USA?
10-28-2016, 12:58 PM
#10
I am considering using Castrol Edge Professional, 5W-30 / 504 Spec
https://amzn.com/B00UXUXUZE
Any arguments against this?
Vehicle is 2017 A4 Quattro PP driving in SE USA, running high octane fuel, occasionally with ethanol additives.
Its a daily driver for me. 25 miles each way at highway speeds.
https://amzn.com/B00UXUXUZE
Any arguments against this?
Vehicle is 2017 A4 Quattro PP driving in SE USA, running high octane fuel, occasionally with ethanol additives.
Its a daily driver for me. 25 miles each way at highway speeds.
