When coasting, slow down or braking?
#1
When coasting, slow down or braking?
Hi, I picked up a new A4 premium Quattro and it is a huge upgrade over my previous GM vehicle. However, one strange thing that I feel I am noticing, but maybe I’m just crazy: at low speeds - for example when exiting a parking lot - and coasting it feels like almost something is applying brakes to the tires as it does not coast much at all and slows down very fast. It feels sort of sudden too if that makes any sense like something is artificially slowing down the car from coasting. Any ideas? Maybe this is something with 4wd that I am not used to?
#3
AudiWorld Super User
I'm not sure what you are used to besides GM, but what you are feeling is engine braking. I'm guessing you've never owned a manual transmission car. This car has what's called a dual clutch transmission. Mechanically it's two concentric computer operated manual transmissions. Each transmission can be connected to the engine using a clutch, hence the name dual clutch. This is the same as a manual transmission. Once the clutch is engaged, there is essentially a solid connection between the transmission and the engine and full engine braking transferred through the drivetrain when coasting or slowing down. In a car with a regular automatic transmission, there is a torque converter between the transmission and the engine. A torque converter uses oil to couple the engine to the transmission and at low speeds there is a lot of slip. Engine braking is not directly transferred through the drivetrain, so it slows down much less. Most torque converters have a lockup clutch nowadays, so at higher speeds they also make a solid connection, but the clutch opens at slow speeds and during shifts and then there is only fluid coupling. This decoupled feel due to the fluid coupling is where the nickname slushbox comes from for traditional automatic transmissions. It makes for very comfortable daily driving, but a disconnected feel for those who like it more sporty.
Last edited by superswiss; 11-06-2018 at 06:02 PM.
#4
Welcome to the modern world of Mechanics Yes this is practically what you will experience when engine braking in a manually car, something that are widely used in EU to save fuel.
In my A4 i can disable Coasting in the MMI, try that to see if you like that more than having it enabled.
I like the engine braking though, and use it active in my daily commute and would never live without i think due to the savings and practicality i feel it gives me.
In my A4 i can disable Coasting in the MMI, try that to see if you like that more than having it enabled.
I like the engine braking though, and use it active in my daily commute and would never live without i think due to the savings and practicality i feel it gives me.
#5
AudiWorld Senior Member
I'm not sure what you are used to besides GM, but what you are feeling is engine braking. I'm guessing you've never owned a manual transmission car. This car has what's called a dual clutch transmission. Mechanically it's two concentric computer operated manual transmissions. Each transmission can be connected to the engine using a clutch, hence the name dual clutch. This is the same as a manual transmission. Once the clutch is engaged, there is essentially a solid connection between the transmission and the engine and full engine braking transferred through the drivetrain when coasting or slowing down. In a car with a regular automatic transmission, there is a torque converter between the transmission and the engine. A torque converter uses oil to couple the engine to the transmission and at low speeds there is a lot of slip. Engine braking is not directly transferred through the drivetrain, so it slows down much less. Most torque converters have a lockup clutch nowadays, so at higher speeds they also make a solid connection, but the clutch opens at slow speeds and during shifts and then there is only fluid coupling. This decoupled feel due to the fluid coupling is where the nickname slushbox comes from for traditional automatic transmissions. It makes for very comfortable daily driving, but a disconnected feel for those who like it more sporty.
#6
Thank you all, that was very informative! I’m kind of surprised engine braking actually saves fuel - I figured not having to accelerate as soon to keep moving would have saved more fuel than that. Interesting. Yes, my car history is quite vanilla .
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#8
AudiWorld Member
Welcome to the modern world of Mechanics Yes this is practically what you will experience when engine braking in a manually car, something that are widely used in EU to save fuel.
In my A4 i can disable Coasting in the MMI, try that to see if you like that more than having it enabled.
I like the engine braking though, and use it active in my daily commute and would never live without i think due to the savings and practicality i feel it gives me.
In my A4 i can disable Coasting in the MMI, try that to see if you like that more than having it enabled.
I like the engine braking though, and use it active in my daily commute and would never live without i think due to the savings and practicality i feel it gives me.
#9
AudiWorld Super User
I have noticed something odd with my car, though, which is that there is more engine braking when the car is cold than when it is warm. (When warm, lifting your foot off the gas doesn't generate that much more engine braking than a torque converter automatic, but when cold, it is jarring as described by the OP) I'm not sure why; I think I may even have made a thread about it long ago. Perhaps because the transmission stays in a lower gear to speed up warming?
Today's engines completely cut the fuel when you are taking your foot off the accelerator pedal, so while you are coasting or slowing down you are burning zero fuel. This has the side effect that engine braking is increased, because the engine only keeps turning because of the momentum of the car, but it does apparently save more fuel than leaving the engine idling while coasting. Once you are moving at normal speeds it compensates for the higher engine braking by keeping the transmission in a higher gear for more comfort and prolonged cruising. Some newer transmissions now have what's called a free wheeling or sailing mode. I'm not entirely sure about the A4, but I know the S4 has it. What happens in this mode is that if you are cruising or taking your foot of the accelerator pedal, the transmission decouples from the engine and the engine shuts off and the car keeps moving forward under its own momentum. This mode is usually active in Comfort or Economy driving modes and takes the whole fuel cut off to a higher level and extending the time the car can keep moving w/o burning fuel. I think that's what the post above refers to in terms of being able to turn on/off in the MMI, but I'm not sure US spec models have this.
Last edited by superswiss; 11-07-2018 at 08:40 AM.
#10
AudiWorld Member
Weird. I have almost no engine braking.
If I go through some corners and have some fun in manual mode I can down shift going into a corner and get very little engine braking even at 4k to 5k rpm's.
I've driven manual transmissions for years and always had good braking. I assumed it was something to do with being turbocharged (my first).
If I go through some corners and have some fun in manual mode I can down shift going into a corner and get very little engine braking even at 4k to 5k rpm's.
I've driven manual transmissions for years and always had good braking. I assumed it was something to do with being turbocharged (my first).
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