Faulty instrument cluster
 

I have had the following codes along with an EPC and check engine light on the dash since October, 2011.

18084 - EPC Warning Lamp (K132) Circuit: Electrical Malfunction
P1676 - 35-00 - -
18098 - Malfunction Indication Light (K83): Electrical Malfunction
P1690 - 35-00 - -

As I need to get my car smogged, and California requires vehicles to not only pass the emissions test, but a dash indicator light functional test (lights must come on with ignition on/ engine off, and then turn off once car is started), I needed to get this fixed, but had run out of ideas.

I previously checked or did the following:

1. Throttle body alignment (several times) with VAG-Com
2. All engine wire harness plugs, hoses, air box clips and connections.
3. Removed APR ECU, replaced with stock ECU, cleared codes, ran car and re-scanned. Dash lights and codes returned. Put APR ECU back in.
4. Removed instrument cluster to check bulbs. Discovered that 'bulbs' are surface mount LEDs. Re-installed cluster.
5. Cleaned battery connections. Load tested battery = good. 13 volts at rest, 10.5 volts under load held for 15 seconds, 14.5 volts while running (alternator).

I finally took the car to an Audi mechanic where it has been for 2 weeks. He scanned it and found the same codes, but with no faults associated with them. The car runs and drives fine and passes emissions tests. He believes it is a faulty instrument cluster. Audi wants over $1200 for the cluster, plus it needs to be programmed. Total parts and labor for that = about $2000, plus all of the diagnostic time already in it. According to my mechanic, you can not just install a used cluster from another 2.7t as the security features will not syncronize and used ones can not be coded to another car - ??

I suggested rewiring the LEDs for EPC and check engine to other known functioning cluster lights that come on and turn off properly, but he said that each light controls other functions that would cause real issues with emissions or other functions if disconnected, or connected through another path.

At this point I am prepared to scrap the car before putting $2k more into it - all because of 2 little LEDs that are not turning off.

Any final ideas from anyone?

Thanks

Pull the cluster and send it out to be repaired. Google for audi instrument cluster repair. Should take less than two weeks. Take the car home and do it.

BTW, SOME audis can be driven w/o the instrument cluster...of course you will have no speedometer or other instruments, but you can wing it if you're careful and drive with traffic.

Codes do indicate a cluster problem, and re-wiring it is a bad idea.

You certainly can switch the instrument clusters, it's just not trivial. The immobilizer is part of the cluster, and it must be programmed to the keys you have. To do that, you will need the PIN code for the new cluster. Dealers can not get it for you - VAG set things up so that the dealer hooks up their diagnostic equipment to your car, and it communicates directly with the factory through the Internet - they never even see the PIN. A good automotive locksmith can retrieve the PIN, but only after the cluster is installed in the car. With the PIN, you can program the immobilizer to your keys with a VAG-COM. You will also need to transfer other settings (mileage, Km/Mi, etc.) Make sure the new cluster is as exact a match as you can find for the one you have now - same year, model, continent, etc. as close as possible.

Check these out:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ibility-issues
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer

You might also want to check with the people who repair these clusters (like BBA in the above video) to see if they can repair your problem.

Jim

First choice is repair, not 'also check with...'

Thanks for the replies.

All of the cluster repair options I have found were for the display fading out, not issues such as what I am having. I asked one of them several months ago if they could fix this issue, and they said they only repair the displays, but this was one I found on Ebay. I will contact the other repair places to find out if they can fix this kind of thing. According to my mechanic, this is a long shot.

I'll let you know what I find.

Well, there are several on e-bay right now, depending on your year etc. Probably worth $100 to try. You might check with RossTech, but I'm pretty sure you can change between manual and auto trans with a VAG-COM if necessary...
Jim

I talked to 2 more "repair" places, and none of them have the equipment to diagnose or repair issues with the clusters such as what I'm experiencing. The equipment they have does not simulate the cluster being in a car = lights on with key and off once engine started. Their equipment just turns on the cluster to check lights, gauges and display. All of my lights are functional, so they will not have a way to check where the fault is that is causing the EPC and CEL to stay on.

I found a couple of clusters from a place called LKQ for around $120, but no way of knowing if they have the immobilizer function. Mine in my car HAS the immobilizer. My understanding is that an immobilizer cluster can not be easily if at all reprogrammed for any other car other than what it originally came in. Does anyone know more about this?

It is a crap shoot if I buy one, as there is no return policy, and a limited exchange policy.

The best option would be to borrow a cluster from someone with an A6 to see if it would work, or if the lights turn off if it did, and then go from there, but these cars seem to be thinning out around here.

I suppose it is worth $120 to find out, but if it doesn't work one or two times, I'm either going to have to scrap the car or sell it out of state to somewhere that does not have the same unreasonable smog testing requirements as California.

I did get a quote back today from Southern Electronics in Richmond VA for $335 (parts, labor, shipping) and they claim that they can not only repair it, but that there will be no charge if they can not repair it. I'm not sure how they verify that it is fixed, and I am not sure what is the best way to go.

I don't know if I have a better chance of success with a used one or repair of mine. Repair costs double, but if they really guarantee it, that might be the way to go.

Plus, if they repair it, there's nothing to re-code or set up, just plug it back in. That's what I'd try...
Jim

I also live in CA, so I have to deal with the same things. If the car passes emissions requirements, who cares if it has a dash light illuminated?

As an alternative, if you keep running into a wall with this, you may try to find a "friendlier" smog check place. There are plenty around, and you can usually get a recommendation from one of the local car forums.

it is possibly your instrument cluster is faulty..
however since you have immobilizer if you end up purchasing another cluster it must be 2001 to 2005 with immobilizer , it will have to be programmed either by dealer or audi shop that has access to vagcom to programing VAG tool or you can do it yourself with VAGCOM..

can your existing cluster be repaired ?
it is possibility, depends on the nature of failed components

You need to just buy a used cluster yourself. Take it to a dealer, and have them do the immobilizer stuff. Its done rather often. be a few hundred dollars. 2k is not worth scrapping the car over, sell it or somthing.

The mechanic was incorrect about my cluster having the immobilizer. It does not. It is a 2000 cluster without the chrome rings around the gauges = no immobilizer.

Southern Electronics says they can repair it with no charge if they cannot and a 1 year warranty on the cluster, so it seems I have little to lose there. Plus, as someone mentioned earlier, I remove it and I re-install it. No labor charges for reprogramming, etc.

I'll be the first to report whether or not the repair works, and I will hold them to their money back promise if it does not. If it does not work, then I'll take the far more risky plan B which is to buy a used cluster with no returns allowed and pay someone with the programming equipment several hundred dollars to extract the data off of my old cluster and put it on the new one, and cross my fingers that the new cluster does not have a dead display or some other issues.

Never heard of Southern. Why not go with someone who has a known track record with Audi like BBA or MM?

A friend had a bad experience with BBA sending a cluster back without properly repairing it not once but 3 times before he put a stop payment on his credit card. Yes, it's one experience, but a personal connection. I also talked to them on the phone and they were unsure how they would verify whether or not my problem was fixed. They just talked about checking solder joints and bench testing it.

I had not considered Module Master, so I called them and they gave me more assurance that they could fix the issue. Since they also quoted $150 instead of $330-something that Southern Electronics quoted, I decided to go with them. The cluster is out and I'm looking for a box right now to send it off to them today. I only have to pay shipping if they can't fix it. Of course if they say they fixed it and I pay and find out it isn't fixed, this could be another issue. Crossing my fingers.

Update - Cluster repaired
 

I got the cluster back from Module Master and installed it today.

Backing up a bit, when they had the module they called me and said that there are controllers for the CEL and EPC light, and that these controllers had failed. The tech said he had never seen this problem before.

He also said that my information center screen was putting out 50% of what it should. It showed no signs to me of having issues, had no pixel fading or failure, or dimming that I could see, but he went ahead a replaced that as well as the two bad controllers.

I cleared the old codes, started the car and the CEL and EPC lights function as normal now, turning off once the car is started.

The information center screen does appear to be brighter and more crisp as well.

Not bad for $150. For 6-months I've been posting for help on 4 or 5 Audi forums and diagnosing and testing components and checking systems from ABS to the ECM to the throttle body and throttle position sensor, and finally gave up and took it to a mechanic who guessed that it might be the cluster.

Thanks for recommending Module Master.

Did you ever find out where the controllers for the CEL and EPC light were located on the board? Were controllers integrated circuits with hardcoded software or writeable? Was it simple SMC components that had blown up and needed to be replaced?

Can't say enough about Module Masters. They are usually quick as well as proficient. Can't beat the costs.

second. MM is also excellent on ABS module repairs.
 

You can drive the car without an ABS module...just watch out for wheel lockup on the rear because of rear brake bias.

First, reset the Auto Check!

quattroworld.com Forums: How to reset the yellow light (priority 2) symbols in the instrument cluster Auto-Check Display.

Sure. Seems like a great option at least for those living in US, but I'm afraid shipping would be too costly from Northern Europe.

Thanks, tried it a few times. It does run through a systems check were it displays the error messages on the display. Unfortunately it does nothing to the blinking key light that indicates the immobilizer is activated.

The only information he gave me was what I mentioned. It sounded like the modules were soldered components on the board, and I have no idea where they were, although I would assume they are close in proximity to the CEL and EPC lights.

The car was parted out 2 years ago, and the instrument cluster was still working perfectly when I sold it.

Ok, thanks. Next step for me is finding a suitable cluster replacement and try it out.

Hi, Tanin Auto Electronix here. We are vendors on the site and we work internationally and have been in business for many years. We stand behind our work and take good care of our forum friends as well!

Give us a call or email us anytime and we can help you locate a replacement and get you quotes for shipping with your address information.

We know how frustrating it can be looking for the right part but we can help out! We also offer deals to AudiForum customers frequently so watch for our posts on the forum as well!

Thanks,