New "short" fuse 15 blows, "fuse" over odometer, Battery Icon
03-04-2018, 03:03 PM
#21
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Thanks Harleyguy.
Here is the skinny on the connector and wires.
E1 is the parking lights switch. Fed by (3) via pin 15/30 which is Hot from Pin 30 Red Plus (hot from battery), it feeds to (50) which goes to left tail light and left parking light and (34) goes to right tail light and right parking light.
These work.
E23 is the headlight switch. Fed by Yellow/black wire (1/XZ) which comes from the Relay J59. This relay is open at this time. There is power at it's hot side of J59, but not after. I do not yet know what turns this relay on and off. It's called Load Reduction Relay.
E23 also manages the fog lights and it's output is to pin 2/XR of that connector (next to 1/Xz), and feeds through a fuse and into the E4 Headlight dimmer/flasher switch to feed the high beams and turns fogs off when hi's are on. It also feed J5, fog light relay and the rear fogs. These do not work.
So the parking lights work but the Headlights, turn signal, fog lights and wipers do not. The Hi-beams do work ONLY WITH FLASH switch pulled back, not with switch pushed forward to the regular hi-beam on position.
I need to take a fresh look tomorrow when not on call and can concentrate. I have checked fuses but need to methodically check them all again.
I'll note which systems work. Radio. A/C/heat blower. Heat and defrost. Rear window defrost. I cannot confirm A/C is working since it's too cold outside. Interior lights work, hi beams work with Flash, but not on position check, glove box light works and turns off with head light switch turned off (as it should).
I do not yet know how this related to the other issue of the Volt meter not working, "Fuse" warning for Fuse 15 being out, and the Battery Symbol in the display. My new battery has been fine for more than a month.
Mike
Here is the skinny on the connector and wires.
E1 is the parking lights switch. Fed by (3) via pin 15/30 which is Hot from Pin 30 Red Plus (hot from battery), it feeds to (50) which goes to left tail light and left parking light and (34) goes to right tail light and right parking light.
These work.
E23 is the headlight switch. Fed by Yellow/black wire (1/XZ) which comes from the Relay J59. This relay is open at this time. There is power at it's hot side of J59, but not after. I do not yet know what turns this relay on and off. It's called Load Reduction Relay.
E23 also manages the fog lights and it's output is to pin 2/XR of that connector (next to 1/Xz), and feeds through a fuse and into the E4 Headlight dimmer/flasher switch to feed the high beams and turns fogs off when hi's are on. It also feed J5, fog light relay and the rear fogs. These do not work.
So the parking lights work but the Headlights, turn signal, fog lights and wipers do not. The Hi-beams do work ONLY WITH FLASH switch pulled back, not with switch pushed forward to the regular hi-beam on position.
I need to take a fresh look tomorrow when not on call and can concentrate. I have checked fuses but need to methodically check them all again.
I'll note which systems work. Radio. A/C/heat blower. Heat and defrost. Rear window defrost. I cannot confirm A/C is working since it's too cold outside. Interior lights work, hi beams work with Flash, but not on position check, glove box light works and turns off with head light switch turned off (as it should).
I do not yet know how this related to the other issue of the Volt meter not working, "Fuse" warning for Fuse 15 being out, and the Battery Symbol in the display. My new battery has been fine for more than a month.
Mike
03-05-2018, 06:34 AM
#22
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
more info....
Looking at the J59 relay diagrams and comparing to physical findings in car.
Physically in car: The four pins are labeled on the actual relay (1) 86, (2) 85, (3) 30, and (5) 87. When I check with my ohm meter I have continuity from pin (2)85 to the Yellow/Brown wire which goes to the headlight switch (1/Xz) and continuity to ground from pin (1) 86. Pin (3) 30 is hot 12v/14v. Pin (5) 87 is the control input. I carefully translated which pin is which known that the relay is flipped over when I look at the back of it. It appears the Bentley manual wire diagram has pin (1) 86 and pin (2) 85 reversed.
On Wire Diagram:
J59 - pin labeled 8/85 connects to line 31 (there are labels for 30, 15, X and 31 as well as 75 but note this internal 75 line is NOT included in the other J59 diagram I up loaded as this wire diagram shows up in several different parts of the bentley manual). If you follow "internal line 31" this goes to ground at ground connection 81 in the instrument panel ground. ( But physically in the car this line goes to the headlight switch)
- pin labeled 5/86 goes to the yellow/brown wire (ge/sw) going to the ignition switch and to the head light switch. (not through the ignition switch). (But Note physically in the car this item labeled 5/86 actually corresponds to the port at the J59 mounting site that goes to GROUND when I use the ohm meter.) This line 5/86 also goes to internal line 75 and when I follow that on the internal bus it goes to the Horn Relay - thus why the horn also does not work LOL)
- pin labeled 7/30 goes to internal line 30 which goes to plus 12/14v. This tests out on the physical jack site as pin 7 is hot.
- pin labeled 6/87 goes to internal line "X" which I ASSUME (*** out of you and me) goes to the control system which turns the relay on and off.
So from physical evidence I think the plug sites labeled 5 and 8 are actually flipped in the manual.
Here is my plan......tell me what you think. I am going to get an inline fuse with heavy wire and jump between the hot line (socket 7, ie pin (3) 30) to the line going to the headlight switch (2)85 socket labeled 8) and see if my headlights, turn signals etc work again. If I have the connections backwards (ie the labels are correct) I'll just blow that inline fuse to ground. If I have it correct there will be power at the 1/Xz pin on the headlight switch and thus the lights will work.
Mike
Looking at the J59 relay diagrams and comparing to physical findings in car.
Physically in car: The four pins are labeled on the actual relay (1) 86, (2) 85, (3) 30, and (5) 87. When I check with my ohm meter I have continuity from pin (2)85 to the Yellow/Brown wire which goes to the headlight switch (1/Xz) and continuity to ground from pin (1) 86. Pin (3) 30 is hot 12v/14v. Pin (5) 87 is the control input. I carefully translated which pin is which known that the relay is flipped over when I look at the back of it. It appears the Bentley manual wire diagram has pin (1) 86 and pin (2) 85 reversed.
On Wire Diagram:
J59 - pin labeled 8/85 connects to line 31 (there are labels for 30, 15, X and 31 as well as 75 but note this internal 75 line is NOT included in the other J59 diagram I up loaded as this wire diagram shows up in several different parts of the bentley manual). If you follow "internal line 31" this goes to ground at ground connection 81 in the instrument panel ground. ( But physically in the car this line goes to the headlight switch)
- pin labeled 5/86 goes to the yellow/brown wire (ge/sw) going to the ignition switch and to the head light switch. (not through the ignition switch). (But Note physically in the car this item labeled 5/86 actually corresponds to the port at the J59 mounting site that goes to GROUND when I use the ohm meter.) This line 5/86 also goes to internal line 75 and when I follow that on the internal bus it goes to the Horn Relay - thus why the horn also does not work LOL)
- pin labeled 7/30 goes to internal line 30 which goes to plus 12/14v. This tests out on the physical jack site as pin 7 is hot.
- pin labeled 6/87 goes to internal line "X" which I ASSUME (*** out of you and me) goes to the control system which turns the relay on and off.
So from physical evidence I think the plug sites labeled 5 and 8 are actually flipped in the manual.
Here is my plan......tell me what you think. I am going to get an inline fuse with heavy wire and jump between the hot line (socket 7, ie pin (3) 30) to the line going to the headlight switch (2)85 socket labeled 8) and see if my headlights, turn signals etc work again. If I have the connections backwards (ie the labels are correct) I'll just blow that inline fuse to ground. If I have it correct there will be power at the 1/Xz pin on the headlight switch and thus the lights will work.
Mike
03-05-2018, 08:58 AM
#23
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
With jumper wire in place, the headlights, hi beams and horn work.
Turn signal and wipers to not.
Progress I guess.
Looks like the ignition switch may be the cause.
Mike
Turn signal and wipers to not.
Progress I guess.
Looks like the ignition switch may be the cause.
Mike
03-12-2018, 11:56 AM
#25
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
New info on the interior light dimmer and the fuse 15 short!
I spoke with an Audi mechanic and service manager whom I have both know for more than 10 years (they have worked on my car several times when I still was under warrantee).
The tech said that the interior light dimming is done via the instrument cluster circuitry as directed by the rheostat, and not by just the rheostat per say. So this explains the sequence of events, first I intermittently lost dimming ability, then it went out completely, then the error in the display presented along with the fuse 15 short to ground.
Next step is to remove the instrument cluster, unplug it and see if that short resolves. The part is available from Germany, $950 plus tax and shipping and requires dealer coding, so probably $20grand additional in service fees. But I am going to go to my local mechanic where I get my cars inspected each year and figure out if the car will pass inspection as is. Then I'll just leave the blown circuit as is.
Mike
I spoke with an Audi mechanic and service manager whom I have both know for more than 10 years (they have worked on my car several times when I still was under warrantee).
The tech said that the interior light dimming is done via the instrument cluster circuitry as directed by the rheostat, and not by just the rheostat per say. So this explains the sequence of events, first I intermittently lost dimming ability, then it went out completely, then the error in the display presented along with the fuse 15 short to ground.
Next step is to remove the instrument cluster, unplug it and see if that short resolves. The part is available from Germany, $950 plus tax and shipping and requires dealer coding, so probably $20grand additional in service fees. But I am going to go to my local mechanic where I get my cars inspected each year and figure out if the car will pass inspection as is. Then I'll just leave the blown circuit as is.
Mike
03-12-2018, 12:29 PM
#26
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Now the bentley manual makes sense. The dash light dimmer switch only connects to an input on the J285 (instrument cluster) and no other wires apparently leave it!.
Part of the interior lights are fed from pin T32/20 58s of J285 the output is distributed to the various lights in the car, emergency flasher switch backlight, cigarette lighter backlights, fog light switch backlight, also to the backlight in the actual dimmer switch, to the backlights for the reading lights, map light switch, and interior light switch, storage compartment light(not sure what that is) and cupholder backlight.
I have not decoded the wires which control the dimming in the a/c heat control unit itself since there are several wires coming from the J285 going to the A/C control unit (E87).
And I did not find the wires going to the door panel switches as they are dimmed also.
Mike
Part of the interior lights are fed from pin T32/20 58s of J285 the output is distributed to the various lights in the car, emergency flasher switch backlight, cigarette lighter backlights, fog light switch backlight, also to the backlight in the actual dimmer switch, to the backlights for the reading lights, map light switch, and interior light switch, storage compartment light(not sure what that is) and cupholder backlight.
I have not decoded the wires which control the dimming in the a/c heat control unit itself since there are several wires coming from the J285 going to the A/C control unit (E87).
And I did not find the wires going to the door panel switches as they are dimmed also.
Mike
03-20-2018, 03:57 PM
#28
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Ok, I swapped out the Instrument Cluster with a second hand one. I put a new fuse in fuse 15 and turned the car on. The volt meter works, the word "fuse" was gone, and the lights on the transmission shifter work, but the other interior lights still do not light up. I could not run the car due to the immobilizer, but it turned over. I put the original back in and of course that fuse blew immediately. Now I am wondering if there is a short out side of the instrument cluster in one of those interior lights somewhere.
I have the car 'on' with the old unit in and hope the thing will "Sync" and the car will run, otherwise I am SCREWED since the "key" symbol is blinking and I may need to tow the car to the dealer to get it reprogramed. I was told I could just plug the old unit back in and the car would run, but maybe that was not correct. DAM IT! I'll know in 20 minutes or so.
This blows.
Mike
I have the car 'on' with the old unit in and hope the thing will "Sync" and the car will run, otherwise I am SCREWED since the "key" symbol is blinking and I may need to tow the car to the dealer to get it reprogramed. I was told I could just plug the old unit back in and the car would run, but maybe that was not correct. DAM IT! I'll know in 20 minutes or so.
This blows.
Mike
03-20-2018, 04:19 PM
#29
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
The car is now "immobilized" and I'll have to get it recoded. I am not sure I the new cluster is going to fix the interior light issue and perhaps the real cause will fry this instrument cluster also.
I am going to call my indy and see if he can make a house call.
Mike
I am going to call my indy and see if he can make a house call.
Mike
03-21-2018, 03:10 PM
#30
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
I reset all the DTC's with VAG Com and the car is running again with the original instrument cluster back in.
So....next.......
I have to figure out where the other short is. I don't think that a mismatched instrument cluster would stop the interior lights from working.
When I put my ohm meter on the wire going out to the interior lights I got a short to ground. This is not right, there should be some resistance noted due to the light bulbs (all in parallel of course) but not a short to ground. Am I correct on that?
I don't dare get the new cluster coded and just have the fault show again after a few weeks. Remember, the dimming thing started with intermittent function then the battery was dead, replaced the battery, car ran fine, later the interior lights stopped working completely, and then a bit later I got that blown fuse 15.. So I cannot ignore that. Should be fun to check every wire going to every light.
Mike
So....next.......
I have to figure out where the other short is. I don't think that a mismatched instrument cluster would stop the interior lights from working.
When I put my ohm meter on the wire going out to the interior lights I got a short to ground. This is not right, there should be some resistance noted due to the light bulbs (all in parallel of course) but not a short to ground. Am I correct on that?
I don't dare get the new cluster coded and just have the fault show again after a few weeks. Remember, the dimming thing started with intermittent function then the battery was dead, replaced the battery, car ran fine, later the interior lights stopped working completely, and then a bit later I got that blown fuse 15.. So I cannot ignore that. Should be fun to check every wire going to every light.
Mike