cmwerner

Yikes. Do these numbers pretty much confirm a stretched chain, or is it possible theres a different root cause? Assuming stretched chains can lead to some pretty catastrophic engine failures, yes?

What am I looking at for chain replacement? Or is it possible to just replace tensioners to make up for some stretch?

4Driver4

Wow. This is quite a mountain you are all making out of a molehill. In no particular order:

These chains don't stretch. The 1980's are over. The guides may wear, but the chains don't stretch. I don't care what the old wives' tales are or what the shop told you. Even if they do stretch (they don't) you should be able to simply reset the cam timing.

If there is no rattle at start up, this is a minor problem.

These component failures tend to be intermittent. Testing with VAG-COM may or may not be useful.

Why not swap some sensors and solenoids between banks and see what happens. This is quick and easy, and can yield a ton of information on the problem. If the OP had done that when I first suggested it, we would probably have a result by now.

Again: I see this as a minor issue. Keep it simple.

cmwerner

Hi all. Finally have an update on this topic. I was out of town for a couple weeks, but now I'm back and had a chance this weekend to get under the hood.

Tried swapping out the sensors, but the one throwing the code was stuck on there good and I ended up stripping out the head =\. BUT, I did successfully swap the solenoids/valves.

Took it for a quick drive and reviewed the codes. The original codes I was getting have not returned (at least not yet), but there is a new code now on Bank 1, suggesting that this is in fact a solenoid problem. See the new code below. Time to purchase a new valve right?

000870 - Camshaft Position Sensor B Bank 1 (G300) P0366 - 006 - Implausible Signal Freeze Frame: Fault Status: 01000001 Fault Priority: 4 Fault Frequency: 1 Reset Counter: 40 Mileage: 177936 km Time Indication: 0 Date: 2014.05.26 Time: 16:30:05 RPM: 960 /min Mass Air / Rev.: 98.1 mg/str Temperature: 84.0°C : Idle Bin. Bits: 00010000 Speed: 32.0 km/h

TGR172

Hi. I posted yesterday about the solenoid valves and their relation to the sensor fault codes and misfires etc. If you pulled the valve put voltage between the two pins and see if the selenoid moves the valve up and down. If it doesent it could be just stuck. If you look at the bottom on the valve on the end there is a hole (the valve is hollow) that with a pin light you can look into. Inside there are a couple of ports close to the bottom. I used a small tack or nail, held the pointed end with a pair of pliers. Put the head into the hole hooked the port ith the head of the nail and pulled or pushed untill the valve moved did it several times and it freed up. Once it was free I put same transmission fluid on the valve near the selenoid and exercised it to work it in. Then hooked it up to voltage and it worked fine . Installed it and so far all is well. Dont know how long it will last but for $160 replacement I'll go with it and see. Do you have VCDS? You should be able to hear the selenoids clicking when running output test.

sd5ten

Hello,
I have the same issue with my 2007 Q7 4.2, at first it was intermediant problem (p0024-bank 2 cam over advanced and engine misfiring) but then one day it would stop running rough and misfiring on bank 2, pulled faults and same p0024-cam timing fault. I ended up swapping both cam sensors and solenoids from bank to bank and the fault stayed on bank 2, I tried flushing out the engine and found oil filter cap safety relief valve was broken and allowing unfilter oil through the engine, so I thought I found the root cause, and decided to repair cam adjuster on the camshaft it self thinking debri got into the adjuster making it stick, after all that, it ran fine, but from time to time the fault will return, I wondering if there's a filter for the solenoid valve? Hope any one can be of help?

Jeffrey 200 touareg

my Touareg engine light came on after a little hesitation when I accelerated.it blank for a couple seconds then went off. And never returned again until 3 weeks later. Then No engine running problems at all but engine light came on solid and constant. Code P0024.brought my Touareg into a Volkswagen repair shop. They told me Volkswagen released a Technical Bulletin stating the bank 2 camshaft sensors can periodically produce electrical interference. the ECU cannot interpret the right signals and sometimes can cause misfires. I was told they made new sensors that cure the interference problem. I'm having them installed this Monday. Hopefully it fixes my issue.

irelandbuyer

All, sorry too hijack this thread but the issue here is nearly identical to one i have now and was hoping for some more insight and I need some friendly advice.

I have a 2006 A8 D3, 3.2 FSI petrol, 85k miles.

I had it 5 days and one morning it was rough on start up but cleared when car warmed up. The day after the Emissions Light came on the dash. I brought it into an Indy and he hooked it up and showed the P0391 error. He cleared it and it hasn't arisen since but I was reading the thread here on a similar issue so I brought it back today and they hooked it up to a VAG.

I took particular attention to the block 93 and here are the readings:

Group 093: Continuous Camshaft Adjustment (Phase Position)

4.5°KW Phasenlage Intake Bank 1
8.6°KW Phasenlage Intake Bank 2
8.6°KW Phase Position Exhaust Bank 1
5.3°KW Phase Position
From what I have gathered here (I am way not technical), that the timing chain service limit 8 and these values would be greatly in excess of that and could indicate a problem.

The mechanics aren't really bothered getting into this level of detail nor spend the time researching it either so i'm afraid i'm relying on some good will that i can garner from this site.

Hoping you can help me shed some light on all of this?

Many thanks in advance.....

frankinstyn

I had the same problem and mine turned out to be both solenoids stuck.

I took them both out and sprayed the crap out of them with brake cleaner.

I then jumpered each one to the battery jump terminals right there in the engine bay.
I just kept tapping the terminal with the jumper wire until I heard and felt the solenoid clicking loudly as it should.

Bolted them both back in place and everything has been perfect since.

It's been six months (knock on wood). Easy fix for the cost of a can of brake clean.


I did not shock the phase of each cam tensioner. The engine starts quietly even after sitting for two weeks and pulls extremely hard with no fuss or hesitation.

irelandbuyer

I’ve been meaning to write up my experience with the P0391 error – Camshaft Position Sensor.

The issue arose when I started the car and it was initially rough but cleared when car warmed up. The day after the Emissions Light came on the dash. I brought it into my shop and they hooked it up and showed the P0391 error. They cleared it but it arose again. I brought it back and they hooked it up again to the VAG.

We paid particular attention to Block 93 and the readings were:

Group 093: Continuous Camshaft Adjustment (Phase Position)
4.5°KW Phasenlage Intake Bank 1
8.6°KW Phasenlage Intake Bank 2
8.6°KW Phase Position Exhaust Bank 1
5.3°KW Phase Position Exhaust Bank 2

From what I gathered online, that the timing chain service limit 8 and these values would be greatly in excess of that indicated a potentially serious problem.

It was clear that reading the forums here and elsewhere that it was pointing to a timing problem.

I took it to the main dealer for an initial diagnostic (I wanted a second opinion). The write up from their works was as follows:

“Carried out investigation into EMA and lack of power. Confirmed EML On. Road-tested but unable to experience lack of power. Carried out a diagnostic check. Numerous voltage faults logged in various control unit. 3 faults logged in engine ECU. “Camshaft Position Sensor “B” Circuit – Range performance. Issue is with Sensor for Camshaft Position G301 (Sensor 4) (Left Bank Outer). Gained Access to Sensor. Disconnected. Found sensor heavily contaminated with oil and oil ingress into wiring. Connected tool and checked supply voltage and Earth Pin 1+3. All Ok. Checked signal on sensor (Hall Effect). All OK. Recommend replacing sensor and connector and 3 wires followed by extended road-test.. Removed and replaced Cam Sensor G3011 + Connector + Wiring. Started vehicle and tested. Engine is running rough. Checked fault memory. Fault is still present. Checked MVB for Cam Shaft Adjusters + Misfire recognition for both Bank 1+2. An adjustment is being recorded of 0.75’ on Bank 2 Exhaust Cam Shaft. Recommend to check cam/valve timing. R+R airbox and inlet pipe. R+R engine bay and front Tube. R+R both cylinder head covers. Checked valve timing using specialist tools. All OK. Reassembled removed parts. Checked MVB again. Adjustment for exhaust Cam Bank 2 is still recorded. Checked signal for adjuster from Engine ECU and compared to Bank 1. Same signal is recorded. Checked signal for both Hall Sensors on Bank 2. Both signals are correct. Swopped inlet and exhaust cam adjusters and carried out basic settings. Fault now logged with inlet adjusters. Swopped back again and re-did basic settings. Fault back on exhaust adjuster. Recommend a new exhaust cam adjuster on Bank 2. Removed and replaced adjuster and carried out basic settings. System Test Now OK. Carried out a Road-test. All OK.”

I was originally thinking this was going to be a very expensive engine out timing chain replacement and thankfully it was a lot less than that.

What was interesting to me was that two independents couldn’t get to the bottom of the problem and it took a main dealer to undertake more in-depth fault analysis to get a result….was costly but not as dear as a timing chain fix....

LarryJa

I am most interested in this thread, since my 3.2fsi c6 has about 3-4degrees on bank 1 total & 6-7.5 on bank 2. I have no extra noise on start up, either. However, i have been tbinking that i am heading to a bank 2 upper chain tensioner replacement.
Maybe not!
We'll see...