2004 A8 better pack a big bang coz...
03-20-2002, 04:29 PM
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2004 A8 better pack a big bang coz...
just read the following article at http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=4715&sid=192&n=158
basically, there are stakes being thrown in here due to the fact of the amount of ultra lux cars in the market. BMW's new 7, the s600, phaeton, ls430, q45, and of course the jags. So there has to be real significant changes to the new a8 or audi might just be tugged to the sidlines of ultra lux. I want an a8 bad, but i know a lot of people who dont even know of the a8, just mercedes and bimmer. Audi has to make the new a8 really good and make everyone aware of it, and must make sure that they sustain the quality in it 2 in order to beat comparable mercedes. Well just my thoughts, l8r.
basically, there are stakes being thrown in here due to the fact of the amount of ultra lux cars in the market. BMW's new 7, the s600, phaeton, ls430, q45, and of course the jags. So there has to be real significant changes to the new a8 or audi might just be tugged to the sidlines of ultra lux. I want an a8 bad, but i know a lot of people who dont even know of the a8, just mercedes and bimmer. Audi has to make the new a8 really good and make everyone aware of it, and must make sure that they sustain the quality in it 2 in order to beat comparable mercedes. Well just my thoughts, l8r.
03-20-2002, 06:42 PM
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Re: 2004 A8 better pack a big bang coz...
Keep in mine the LS430 and Q45 have V8 engines, the S600, Phaeton and new 7 are all available with V(W)12 engines, and the new A8 will definitely have the W12 engine available. The direct cometition for the LS430 and Q45 should be the S430, 745i/Li, A8 4.2...etc
Maybach is intended to target Rolls Royce customers, in VW group, Bentley will target that crowd with the Bugatti topping out all competitors making those 1-million dollar + bespoke cars to customer specifications.
If you want big bang for bucks, the new Phaeton would be your choice. According to some car magazines, VW purposely made the 1st gen Phaeton to look like the Passat. It will provide almsot all features found in the Mercedes S with a lower price tag. The 1st gen Phaeton is suppose to be an image builder than VW won't be making much profit out of it (like the 1st gen A8), so, the Phaeton should be fairly competitive in terms of pricing. It would be interesting to see what VW will do in the after-sales services to Phaeton owners and Golf owners...
Maybach is intended to target Rolls Royce customers, in VW group, Bentley will target that crowd with the Bugatti topping out all competitors making those 1-million dollar + bespoke cars to customer specifications.
If you want big bang for bucks, the new Phaeton would be your choice. According to some car magazines, VW purposely made the 1st gen Phaeton to look like the Passat. It will provide almsot all features found in the Mercedes S with a lower price tag. The 1st gen Phaeton is suppose to be an image builder than VW won't be making much profit out of it (like the 1st gen A8), so, the Phaeton should be fairly competitive in terms of pricing. It would be interesting to see what VW will do in the after-sales services to Phaeton owners and Golf owners...
03-21-2002, 05:16 AM
#3
Phaeton: A Marketing Blunder, IMHO (Long Rant)
Too bad that certain personal egos (Mr P) are getting in the way of common sense at VW/Audi.
With introduction of the VW Phaeton, VW/Audi will further devalue the Audi brand, as well as continuing a sorry trend toward badge engineering and marketplace confusion.
Braced by introduction of the A8 and a subsequent string of excellent cars (A4, A6, TT), Audi was well positioned to solidify itself as a creditible competitor to BMW and Mercedes.
I just had my A8 serviced yesterday at the VW/audi dealer in Charlotte. Lousy service, not a single required A8 part in stock, and a showroom full of VW's with Audi engines, bodies, and interiors.
Now, no new A8 or S8, but a new VW (?) wannabe.
Plenty of precedent exists for this type of marketing blunder (GM Simolacs, etc, VW/Audi Dasher/Fox debacle).
Customers willing to pay big premiums expect cars with clear brand images, distinctive and unique service facilities, and sound resale value. Example: Lexus. Made by Toyota, but revered as a unique product package. As a multibrand corporation, VW Audi should take notice.
Suggestion: Make Audi dealerships and products standalone and unique. Target the BMW niche with performance, design, and engineering. Leverage Audi racing results.
Attack the new 7 series with a much better looking new A8.
VW: Target the Honda/Toyota market. Focus on value and German heritage. Return to the self effacing PR approach. Lose the Phaeton. Make it a Bently or something obscure.
With introduction of the VW Phaeton, VW/Audi will further devalue the Audi brand, as well as continuing a sorry trend toward badge engineering and marketplace confusion.
Braced by introduction of the A8 and a subsequent string of excellent cars (A4, A6, TT), Audi was well positioned to solidify itself as a creditible competitor to BMW and Mercedes.
I just had my A8 serviced yesterday at the VW/audi dealer in Charlotte. Lousy service, not a single required A8 part in stock, and a showroom full of VW's with Audi engines, bodies, and interiors.
Now, no new A8 or S8, but a new VW (?) wannabe.
Plenty of precedent exists for this type of marketing blunder (GM Simolacs, etc, VW/Audi Dasher/Fox debacle).
Customers willing to pay big premiums expect cars with clear brand images, distinctive and unique service facilities, and sound resale value. Example: Lexus. Made by Toyota, but revered as a unique product package. As a multibrand corporation, VW Audi should take notice.
Suggestion: Make Audi dealerships and products standalone and unique. Target the BMW niche with performance, design, and engineering. Leverage Audi racing results.
Attack the new 7 series with a much better looking new A8.
VW: Target the Honda/Toyota market. Focus on value and German heritage. Return to the self effacing PR approach. Lose the Phaeton. Make it a Bently or something obscure.
03-21-2002, 07:06 AM
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I see your point, but...
I think that the Phaeton is good news for Audi because VW going upmarket is going to force Audi to differentiate itself with performance. And I don't just mean power, I mean all-around handling, braking, etc.
As an Audi fan I'm a bit concerned because I like the current styling, but I agree with Mr. P (or is it Dr. P?) that Audi is currently a bit too conservative.
But who knows, I guess we'll see how it's going in about five years.
As an Audi fan I'm a bit concerned because I like the current styling, but I agree with Mr. P (or is it Dr. P?) that Audi is currently a bit too conservative.
But who knows, I guess we'll see how it's going in about five years.
03-21-2002, 12:59 PM
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LOL! Bentley will be launching something called the "MSB" soon...
Also known as "Mid-size Bentley", targeted against the like of S600 and 760Li, would ber interesting to see how the A8L W12, Phaeton W12 LWB and the Bentley MSB compare against one and other...
03-21-2002, 02:02 PM
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Force Audi to do what...?
No need to do any forcing, just clarify the Audi target market and product positioning.
And, don't forget the importance of the dealership/service aspect of the Audi product.
Let's see, VW dealers servicing Phaetons; Audi dealers selling Kias...You get the picture.
And, don't forget the importance of the dealership/service aspect of the Audi product.
Let's see, VW dealers servicing Phaetons; Audi dealers selling Kias...You get the picture.
03-23-2002, 08:17 AM
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The Bentley will be a pillarless 2-door fastback coupe with a blown version of the W12...
...that should be good for about 425kW (556HP or thereabouts). Six-speed auto all-wheel drive and enough wood and leather inside to build a small detached house and make enough shoes for to fill Emelda Marcos' closet. It'll be tough to mistake for a Phaeton, A8, or anything <b>but</b> a Bentley.
The car, that the Bentley Boys now refer to as the GT Coupe, was show to a select group of journalists, motor industry analysts and potential customers at a remote location a couple of days before the public days of the Geneva motor show. Everybody had to sign non-disclosure agreements. Apparently some mag writers refused and didn't get to see the beast or partake of the heavy hors d'oeuvres.
Everybody will get a look at the Paris show in September, I suspect.
The car, that the Bentley Boys now refer to as the GT Coupe, was show to a select group of journalists, motor industry analysts and potential customers at a remote location a couple of days before the public days of the Geneva motor show. Everybody had to sign non-disclosure agreements. Apparently some mag writers refused and didn't get to see the beast or partake of the heavy hors d'oeuvres.
Everybody will get a look at the Paris show in September, I suspect.
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03-24-2002, 01:32 AM
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It sounds like you think Audi won't evolve? Oh yes, they will! (Long)
VW is not a big threat to Audi as long as VAG does what they plan with the brands, and succeed with it.
It sounds to me like you compare the new Phaeton with the current Audi lineup, and that's a mistake. The Phaeton is no more new to VW than the A8 was to Audi back in 1994. It's just a natural topping of the brand. VW has changed as much as Audi the last 20 years, and they are still moving ahead.
VW is now moving along the same lines Audi did 10 years ago, primary target is MB, but BMW too. (Audi's primary target was BMW). Audi is past that point, they have proven their position a long time ago, they want to move on.
You should try to understand that the US is not the primary market for any VAG car, and what that means.
The primary market is Europe. The same marketplace position may or may not be true in the US, but that doesn't count much. You have to see the descisions and lineup VW and Audi do from an european point of view, or you get it wrong. Audi *IS* regarded the equal or in many cases the better of the three luxury germans over here. If that's not true for the US yet, well, that's not important for how they plan to move on.
Audi is becoming the VAG group design and sport brand. Their target is to turn the Audi brand into a top design icon, something like the Apple computers, Bang & Olufsen HiFi and so on. Best design coupled with great performance. Something you recognize immideately as great and modern design and technology, something that will be remebered for its greatness for deacdes. Let VW fight with BMW and MB, Audi is going further, passing them along they way.
Now that's the plans VAG have for Audi, and how you can se Phaeton as a threat to Audi in this context is a mystery to me. The new A8 will be something totally different, and it will kick bimmer-***. Take a look at the Avantissimo, and you will get a clue of what's coming in the near future. Great design, simply great. Pheaton is very nice, but A8 is going to be *great*.
Now, AoA clearly has a job to do to be able to follow these lines from VAG. VAG will do what they can to avoid brand confusion as they build all the VAG brands to be something special, each targeted to different market segments, and some of them kind of creating new segments (like Audi). I think VAG is one of the very few carmakers (if not *the* one) that really has got this right, and I do believe they will succeed.
It sounds to me like you compare the new Phaeton with the current Audi lineup, and that's a mistake. The Phaeton is no more new to VW than the A8 was to Audi back in 1994. It's just a natural topping of the brand. VW has changed as much as Audi the last 20 years, and they are still moving ahead.
VW is now moving along the same lines Audi did 10 years ago, primary target is MB, but BMW too. (Audi's primary target was BMW). Audi is past that point, they have proven their position a long time ago, they want to move on.
You should try to understand that the US is not the primary market for any VAG car, and what that means.
The primary market is Europe. The same marketplace position may or may not be true in the US, but that doesn't count much. You have to see the descisions and lineup VW and Audi do from an european point of view, or you get it wrong. Audi *IS* regarded the equal or in many cases the better of the three luxury germans over here. If that's not true for the US yet, well, that's not important for how they plan to move on.
Audi is becoming the VAG group design and sport brand. Their target is to turn the Audi brand into a top design icon, something like the Apple computers, Bang & Olufsen HiFi and so on. Best design coupled with great performance. Something you recognize immideately as great and modern design and technology, something that will be remebered for its greatness for deacdes. Let VW fight with BMW and MB, Audi is going further, passing them along they way.
Now that's the plans VAG have for Audi, and how you can se Phaeton as a threat to Audi in this context is a mystery to me. The new A8 will be something totally different, and it will kick bimmer-***. Take a look at the Avantissimo, and you will get a clue of what's coming in the near future. Great design, simply great. Pheaton is very nice, but A8 is going to be *great*.
Now, AoA clearly has a job to do to be able to follow these lines from VAG. VAG will do what they can to avoid brand confusion as they build all the VAG brands to be something special, each targeted to different market segments, and some of them kind of creating new segments (like Audi). I think VAG is one of the very few carmakers (if not *the* one) that really has got this right, and I do believe they will succeed.
03-24-2002, 01:53 AM
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US market positioning is AoA's problem, but look at the facts
The *facts* are that Audi cars does not stand back for BMW or MB (or Jag), and hasn't done for many years.
It might be a marketing and positioning problem in the US, but not in Audis primary market, europe. US might be years behind in this area. AoA has to do a better job in many areas, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the cars.
Look at the facts, compare the former generation BMW and MB to A8, and you will see. You can't compare curent A8 to current MB or BMW, it is a 8 years older car for crying out load! The one brand that really has evolved most during that time is Audi. So have no fear, the new A8 will be really special car. It will leave the Bimmer in the dust in many areas, and it will not be poorer in any. It will be a better car than the MB and BMW competition, and I'm willing to bet on it.
Now, as it seems to me the challenge in the US is AoA, and what they do and don't. Not the Audi products.
It might be a marketing and positioning problem in the US, but not in Audis primary market, europe. US might be years behind in this area. AoA has to do a better job in many areas, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the cars.
Look at the facts, compare the former generation BMW and MB to A8, and you will see. You can't compare curent A8 to current MB or BMW, it is a 8 years older car for crying out load! The one brand that really has evolved most during that time is Audi. So have no fear, the new A8 will be really special car. It will leave the Bimmer in the dust in many areas, and it will not be poorer in any. It will be a better car than the MB and BMW competition, and I'm willing to bet on it.
Now, as it seems to me the challenge in the US is AoA, and what they do and don't. Not the Audi products.