trillaz

As title says... which model?

What are the benefits of the "newer" models? (After 1998 facelift, and later)

It must be a D2 model.

2,5 TDI, 4,2, 6,0 W12 ? Benefits etc?

Long version or not?

How stabile is the transmission? Is it weak about 125.000 kilometers? Other engine issues?

What are the significent changes on the facelifts? And when were they?

I consider an Audi A8L 4,2, latest model about october 2003, about 125.000 kilometers.

THANK you for all your inputs :-)

silverd2

Some of your "facts" are not even close , for NA or Euro models:

- - "98 Facelift"? ...99 in Europe...00 in US.

- - 2003 D2 production ended in late 2002...an Oct 2003 production date would be a 2004 model D3.

Trans (HP5) have a "terrible" reputation, esp on a PFL and early FL models...on average, anywhere from 120K miles on on early and maybe slightly better on late FL models...130-175K miles(?)
...D3 trans (HP6) seems to have a MUCH better reputation...a little more bulletproof.

Differences between the PFL & FL? ...too numerous to mention all...4.2 engine (ONLY engine in US) is VERY different:

PFL 32V...FL 40V Variable valve timing

PFL 2 stage intake...FL 3 stage intake (A8)

PFL standard hydraulic lifters...FL rocker rollers w/mini lifters

PFL external belt oil pump drive...FL internal chain pump dr

PFL oil leaks common...FL oil leaks not common

PFL cable throttle...FL electronic (fly-by-wire) throttle

MANY other smaller differences and improvements in engine, body, interior, suspension (including extra front subframe bracing), bigger better brakes, etc, etc...

trillaz

Hello and thank you very much for the detailed answer - appriciated!

I'm really a rookie on this, i see, sorry. So i need some explanation on your response, please ...

What is HP5 ?

"esp on a PFL and early FL models...on average, anywhere from 120K miles on on early and maybe slightly better on late FL models...130-175K miles(?)"

PFL? FL model?

All those examples you made - when is those changes applied and implemented? And which models are best to choose, with the best "equipment" installed?

Is there something that i need to pay attention to, transmission, oilpump, brakes system, esp etc?

Thank you VERY much :-)

silverd2

Actually should be 5hp or 6 hp....ZF = Transmission manufacturer (Germany)...model ZF 5hp24a used in all D2's...D3 used new model ZF 6hp transmission.

PFL = Pre-facelift ....USA 97-99...Euro 94-98

FL = Facelift ....USA 2000-03 ...Euro 99-02

The FL models got all the changes improvements I mentioned...40V motor etc..starting 2000 models in US.
2001-2003 models (US) had only a few very small changes (slightly changed engine intake and a few very subtle cosmetic changes)...midyear 2000 and up got better brakes. All changes were 1 year earlier on Euro models.

Transmission behavior (hard shifts, stuttering, slipping, etc..) is the #1 concern...all other issues are not as restrictively expensive to deal with. At higher mileage, if seller says trans was rebuilt, get proof on paper or it DID NOT HAPPEN. Transmission "service: is not a rebuild...it simply had the fluid and hopefully filter changed..."service" rarely means a rebuild or will have documentation in the few thousand $$ range.

Timing belt service should have been down by or shortly after 100K miles...expensive service at a dealer or good mechanic..not expensive if done at home. If you don't do your own mechanic work or plan to learn, these cars can be very expensive to maintain...do it yourself or this may be the wrong car to choose, unless you have money to burn. Doing the services yourself (get a Bentley manual) is no more expensive than any other car and very doable by an average home mechanic, excluding trans rebuild...very advanced.

trillaz

Thank you very much. Now i understand better ;-)

So ...

Best shot is the EU version from 1999, after it got the facelift.

And then i have to make absolutely sure about the transmission (when is typical signs of weakness?

And of course make sure about the belt service at 160k kilometers (100k miles) ...

So, basicly any D2 from 1999, where service is maintained properly, and be aware of the transmission issue, which occur at XXX miles?

Didnt some of the never models (2001 - 2002) have some technique that'll blew of the doors in case of a crash ? I think i read some about it? And when did they apply it? Or is it only in D3 and the long version? TIA

dreamhope

The driving condition in Europe differs from that in the US. I'd say in most EU countries what's recommended at 100K miles should be done at perhaps 120-140K kms.

I found many D2s with under 150K kms on the Internet, even a couple with W12 engines. The A8L 4.2 @ 125K you mentioned sounds good. Do make sure the price is good. With cars this old, it's not what you sell but how confident you're (as a seller).

I was looking for a FL S8, but found a PFL A8 4.2 for next to nothing with sports wheels (look better than 16 in) and steering and 98K. I figured that I can't go wrong with it. The main downside is that it has a CD-based satnav that's useless, but everyone has a phone nowadays. Other noticeable things include: it doesn't have parking sensors; the right mirror is smaller, and it doesn't turn down when you put into R. Unnoticeable ones include: 299 hp instead of 310; front brake 314 mm instead of 345 mm (same as S8 in EU); 32 valves instead of 40 w/ vvt (why do Audi engines have that many valves when MB M113 has only 24 (and the earlier M119 had 32)? Is it because of DOHC vs SOHC?); early ZF 5HP transmission (the car's sequential number is 005749, so one of the first 10K A8s, and one of the very first with 5HP24A transmission).

The transmission generally delivers smooth shifts, thought sometimes the downshifts can be rough if the throttle is not gentle. Considering it's an old transmission (both in terms of age and of design), I'm not too concerned about it - I've driven cars with less than 20K miles and yet give rough downshifts.

I certainly will not service the transmission. Here are my reasons: (1) If there's no leak, servicing it only introduces the possibility of leaking (something sealed for over 15 years should better be left unopened). (2) The working temperature for transmission is reasonably low; therefore, the fluid is unlikely to be burnt. (3) Should you / your mechanic make one tiny mistake, you'd wish the service had never been carried out. I would spend the money for the service on Euromillions and the time on praying that the transmission will continue to work well.

One thing I thought of when I was looking: People who buy S8s are more likely to drive them hard. It pays to buy from a pensioner. I got it from an old lady.

Prospeeder

Dont forget, 97-99 A8 2wd have the 3.7 V8 and O1V transmission like all the A4, A6, Passats and are not prone to the trans failures like the Quattros. Its hard to believe somebody really wanted a 2wd A8 lol.

nossisnave

Make sure to drive the car. Let it get to normal operating temperature, make sure none of the gears slip. When you step on the gas the car should move, not just engine revving. If there is any slippage, walk away or get the car for a song. Also ZF, the manufacturer says you need to change the transmission fluid at ~60k miles. It's true the operating temp is less than the powerplant, but that is their recommendation. I prefer the long wheelbase personally.

silverd2

???

That needs a little clarification (and spelling maybe?).

What are you talking about? ...doors actually coming off or what?

dreamhope

I read that on Wikipedia, too. It's limited to the armoured version W12. D3 had that feature as well.