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Although I don't always agree with him, I will fight to the death his right to say it........

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Although I don't always agree with him, I will fight to the death his right to say it........

Old 10-11-2008, 11:13 AM
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Default Although I don't always agree with him, I will fight to the death his right to say it........

in ANY public forum. ohbw is a passionate man, and truly cares deeply about his fellow man and their situations. He is passionate not because of what he may gain personally from his actions, but because he believes it to be the best way to help solve the current ills of the world.

What follows are unedited (except one photo removed) comments from ohbw.

"ohbw speaks: Why it matters when Jason Teller runs AW as a private fiefdom which encourages race hate

I caused a big ruckus in the Politics forum at AW. I did it because I glanced in there and encountered a lot of racist and other hate speech. I object to that, as does anyone with a soul and a moral compass. I object to it because it's fundamentally wrong, and because I live in a nation with a long and terrible history of political assassination. I object to it because I don't want to see that history repeat itself -- I've never found the photographs of the children of slain leaders laying flowers on or saluting their father's passing coffins very funny. I object to it because egging people on in their hatred of a political candidate because of his skin color or the religious background of the elementary school he attended is exactly the sort of thing that encourages an unbalanced lunatic to pick up his deer rifle and take a human being's life with it.

If you have a browser and know how to use it, you can spool up a whole pile of videos of people at McCain/Palin rallies this week shouting, on the mention of Barack Obama's name, things like "terrorist!", "treason!", and -- repeatedly -- "kill him!" You can directly witness the glint of pleasure in Sarah Palin's eyes at this. All week we watched McCain's silent assent until other, better citizens of our country shamed him by writing things like this: " Sen. John McCain, Gov. Sarah Palin and the leadership of the Republican party have a fundamental moral responsibility to denounce the violent rhetoric that has pervaded recent McCain and Palin political rallies. When rally attendees shout out such attacks as "terrorist" or "kill him" about Sen. Barack Obama, when they are cheered on by crowds incited by McCain-Palin rhetoric -- it is chilling that McCain and Palin do nothing to object." (That's AFL-CIO president John Sweeney, but McCain's own former advisers and other top Republican strategists have said the same kind of thing.) Finally, McCain was shamed into commenting that Obama is not an Arab, not a Muslim, not a terrorist, not someone to be feared, "decent".

I became active in AWP because of what I was reading there, which was in the same vein as what we heard at those rallies this week. I upset people, too. As I wrote in an email to Paul yesterday, "What I did there, intentionally and with notice, was turn the techniques of the worst loons there back on themselves -- with the difference that I thoroughly substantiated my posts with links to bona fide news sources like the LA Times, Washington Post, NY Times, CBS, etc. People got very agitated when they couldn't dismiss a non-Republitard with an `Obama bin Biden' one-liner, which is standard operating procedure at AWP. They also resented being called on openly racist speech, and are very plainly eager to preserve that forum as a home for it."

Knuckle-draggers confronted with facts got hot when they couldn't refute them. So they ramped up the hate speech. I offered to knock BobW, one of the worst offenders, on his *** for that -- I didn't do it until he posted that I suck my own ****, but I did do it. That got me suspended -- not BobW for his long history of hate speech (and photo) posts at AW, or for calling me a practicioner of auto-fellatio, but me. I promised not to offer to knock anyone out again, and my account was reinstated.

When I went back, as Perpetual Novice and others have noted, BobW was following me around, trying to fan the flames. What he was also doing -- he's a doctor in San Antonio -- was digging around in my medical records and sharing information about them with others. When I suggested to him openly on the forum that he was playing with his livelihood, and asked Gumbo, a forum moderator, for information about how to contact him so I could explain the situation, I was given a lifetime ban from Audiworld. Not BobW, for a long pattern of racist and other hate speech, and for losing his f'ing mind. Not Gumbo, a moderator, for refusing to communicate with me. Me, for objecting to all that.

Yesterday Alway Overcharged was kind enough to post the facts about my ban. Once again, for emphasis, from the email to Jason Teller which I quoted:

"1. I dropped into AWP, observed chronic racist and other hate speech, offered to clock BobW for same after he suggested I suck my own ****.
2. Suspended by AW -- me, not BobW. Agreed with Kris that there must be limits.
3. Returned to AWP, where my posts were followed around constantly by BobW -- this observed and commented on by others, don't take my word for it.
4. I was notified of electronic requests for my medical records. PI friend in SF with specialty in digital forensics traces use of records to...you guess.
5. I do not threaten BobW, I suggest to him that he's playing with his medical license and his family's welfare, which, I trust, depends on his income.
6. I politely ask Kris for moderator info to make them aware of this situation.
7. Kris begins the abusive language with me. He's astonished when I respond in kind.
You ban me permanently from AW, ignoring the above."

Jason claimed he was referring the matter to Internet Brands, his corporate owner. I asked him directly for contact information for the proper person there, and he ignored that request. As you can see by looking at yesterday's conversation about this (https://forums.audiworld.com/a8/msgs/173500.phtml), which Tozo was principled enough to initiate -- thanks, Tozo, and thanks to everyone who responded to his post -- Jason is AWOL on matters of ethics at AW.

Well, not exactly AWOL: he did ban me for life. He did send a stooge, Gumbo, into yesterday's conversation to suggest, with exactly zero substantiation, that I was banned for "other reasons" and that "the reasons are long deleted, and for good reason", and that "(ohbw's) idea of hate speech and racism just was non-existent. He couldn't play by the rules that everyone else did (which are pretty lax over in AWP)". But nothing's deleted, in fact -- every post on this website is retained for legal reasons. I have them all, Jason has them all. We both have all the hate speech posts, and there's nothing "non-existent" about what they say. We also both have the email record. And I did play by the (entirely unwritten) "rules" at AWP -- I made a lot of politically charged statements, complete with illustrations. (They were slightly unusual in that they were documented with facts, but still.) The Terms of Use violation that I committed once was to offer to knock someone on his ***. I agreed not to do that again, and I didn't. The "violation" that got me banned for life by Jason was suggesting to his friend BobW that his illegal inquiries into my medical records might end up taking food off his family's table, and for trying to contact a moderator to tell him what was going on. I have the post record, I have the email record between me and Jason and Kris Hansen. It's factual, not imaginary.

So why do I give a damn about this, and why should anyone else? It's taking you a long damn time to read this, and it took me longer to write it. Don't we all have women and children to love, cars to tinker with and drive, frisbees or footballs to throw? Yeah, we do. Why didn't I just, as has been suggested, just open another account and carry on?

I didn't do that, and I give a damn about principles, because I don't think people should shout "kill him!" about our political leaders -- or shout the things that lead up to that, like "he's an Arab!" or "he's a Muslim!" (in a country recently and horribly attacked by Arab Muslims, with whom the political leader has exactly zero affiliation of any kind) -- and I don't think the rest of us should tolerate that. Especially people who convene public meetings, like Jason and Audiworld do when they create a Politics forum. And I don't think they should ban someone who protests such behavior. This is our forum, just like this is our country. Every one of us should have some standards about what's allowable in it.

If Jason grows a pair and decides to respond, engage him about this. If he's going to post any "facts" like Gumbo's to justify himself, tell him to open my account so we can discuss this like two men in a roomful of their peers. Ask him why the hate speech at AWP continues -- go read the forum there: just yesterday a member of our very own gentlemanly D2 forum made a bunch of comments about Obama going to a "Muslim school" and an "Islamic school". (https://forums.audiworld.com/politics/msgs/314881.phtml) Is he stupid enough to believe that the elementary school that Barack Obama's father sent him to when he was a tiny child has any bearing on his present-day political philosophy, or qualifies him as a Muslim, or a Muslim terrorist? Probably not -- you'd have to be really, really, really stupid to believe that. But his political candidate is sinking and sinking fast, and he's willing to engage in absolutely anything to try to defeat the other guy. (Actually, if you read his posts, he was willing to do that long before McCain tanked, but never mind that.)

A lot of people are willing to say things like that. Even if it's nonsensical. Even if it's potentially violence-provoking hate speech. Even if it leads to someone's children growing up without a father.

And that's why I'm taking the trouble here, and why you should care. Yeah, I know, it's a damn car forum! But the bar where you drink bar is just a bar where you watch the Bears or the Broncos or the Niners. And if there were a bunch of guys in the back of it trading kiddie **** or parts stolen from the cars outside, you wouldn't tolerate it. And if the owner and the manager of the bar -- that would be Internet Brands and Jason Teller, in this case -- allowed something like that, and ejected people who protested, you'd stand them up against the wall and brace them for it.

If you'd like to communicate your outrage about any or all of this to AW, IB, and Jason, post a follow-up here. And/or email Jason directly. And/or contact IB, and send them a copy of this, along with your feelings about it. And/or man up like Zaphod A8 did last night and say, "I will not buy anything from Audiworld vendors until this is remedied", and email that message and these posts to AW's sponsors. And/or top-post and x-post this conversation daily so they have to man up and deal with it. And/or tell them that you're entirely in favor of my doing what I'm going to do if my account isn't reinstated, which is to file a lawsuit in federal court which documents the kind of hate speech they've allowed at AWP, and what they're actively doing to preserve a safe haven for it and deny a voice to anyone who protests it.

Maybe, in passing, mention that you've seen what the results of political hatred taken to its inevitable and historical end look like. Maybe share a photo or two of that with them. Maybe share with them what men's wives and children look like when their husbands and fathers have been assassinated for reasons of racial or political hatred. Here, in case you've never seen it:

<Img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/24433/ohbw1.jpg">
<Img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/24433/ohbw2.jpg">
<Img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/24433/ohbw3.jpg">
<Img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/24433/ohbw4.jpg">
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Old 10-11-2008, 11:33 AM
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Default Yeah.. People suck. It's a shame we can't do something about disrespectful idiots

that try to badmouth Obama and make claims that are irresponsible and unjustified. There's only one thing that can be done, but that would just add fuel to the fire for those that hate him. What it comes down to is a fear of change. People are so set in their hateful ways that the thought of an African American President makes them furious. But no matter what he has done in his past, Obama will have my support. He could be a drug dealing pedophile rapist that bombed embassies and ate children, and I would still vote for him. He is still a better choice than McCain and his idiotic VP. None of their hate-based propaganda will make me change my mind. And I'm sure this will probably be deleted, but it was still worth saying, and it was my right to say as a U.S. citizen.
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Old 10-11-2008, 11:58 AM
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Default EDIT: Thank you moderator thread now restored Sanity returns

you can not remove posts just to cover your butt

Try clicking on the OBHW link-I cant [can now thanks] get it to work<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/a8/msgs/173546.phtml">https://forums.audiworld.com/a8/msgs/173546.phtml</a</li></ul>
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Old 10-11-2008, 12:48 PM
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Default It doesn't work because they don't REALLY want "feedback"...EDIT- Thread restored.....

How long until this thread is deleted?
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Old 10-11-2008, 02:15 PM
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Default It was deleted.

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/80919/untitled2.jpg"></center><p>
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Old 10-11-2008, 02:16 PM
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Default Re:

It seems as though there are always individuals who will bring the conversation down to the gutter. I can't suggest that BobW is one of those because I haven't read the forum. Best to ignore these types; they are just looking for a response.

The moderator should have contained any hate speech. This is the greatest injustice. But this is Jason's venue and has the right to his own free speech as long as it breaks no laws.

We have the right to continue our forum elsewhere.


I am sorry that this happened to you and AW.

Zaphod A8's vendor ban is a good idea to follow until some statement is made on this issue from AW.
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Old 10-11-2008, 03:55 PM
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Default Damn, just damn. I am at a complete loss for words. I had alway heard that AW was wacked...

coming from the mother list started by Dan Simoes but this forum dispelled all such rumors. Apparently the D2 forum was just an oasis in which I was fortunate enough to encounter the likes of Brian, et al. Jason, your actions and inactions (IMHO) and the likes of you are what made/makes this world a worse place. You are a cretin motivated by ignorance. Please do not pass on your values to future generations as if you do we as a species are most certainly doomed to extinction. As far as AW sponsors are concerned, (albeit not their doing) I am done with them.

*Most* Sincerly,

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Old 10-11-2008, 03:59 PM
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Default This is disrespectfull to the ones who posted there. There was no need for a deletion!!!!!!

or a ban....<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/feedback/msgs/42133.phtml">Clicky</a></li></ul>
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Old 10-11-2008, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: It was deleted.

And its visible only if you know the replied links. This sickens me.<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/feedback/msgs/42123.phtml">Clicky</a></li></ul>
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Old 10-11-2008, 04:55 PM
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Default This is so sad

When I hear about behavior like this, I think it This so sad that people are still so ignorant, I am african american and my parents are both in their early 80's, born and raised in the heart of the civil rights movement in Birmingham, Alabama. My parents moved to Chicago before I was born, but I have a lot of relatives still there, the point I am trying to make is I heard very sad stories growing up from my parents who witnessed and were victims of racial violence, just because the color of their skin,it is pure ignorance and lack of basic understanding that we have people saying racial things. If people want to vote republican, that is totally fine and their right, but to try and intimidate and insult someone because they want to vote and support the democratic canidate that just happens to be african american,is so sad. This is a very good forum (audiworld) I have owned 8 audis since 1992, I have been coming to this forum for at least the last 4 years, and it is sad that some people on this forum have to spew racism. I have learned not to even get upset or hold it against those idiots, because they are miserable and ignorant.
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