Coolant Loss
02-10-2003, 05:11 PM
#11
AudiWorld Super User
You had to take all those bolts off the RH TB cover?
Man, I remember that is a real PITA. Good thing you guys did it before, otherwise it would of taken you so much longer I bet.
Steve, good thing you joined Doug and I to do that timing belt in October, Doug really paid you back! ;-) Nice to have something like that come back at you.
The '00 and newer cars outer TB covers have thumb clips holding them on, I don't know if I like the idea better (if I was changing the TB I know I would) or worse (I like the look of our covers).
Thanks.
pw
Steve, good thing you joined Doug and I to do that timing belt in October, Doug really paid you back! ;-) Nice to have something like that come back at you.
The '00 and newer cars outer TB covers have thumb clips holding them on, I don't know if I like the idea better (if I was changing the TB I know I would) or worse (I like the look of our covers).
Thanks.
pw
02-10-2003, 07:11 PM
#13
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Maybe we should just pitch that contraption !! ...
.
And replace it with a seperate oil-to-air cooler, remote oil filter, and oil temperature thermostat.
I've been thinking about this ever since I first tracked my S8 in the Summer. Running at full throttle 95% of the time, my water temperature gauge runs within one micron of maximum. The cooling system simply needs more surface area, and I've been looking at these <A HREF="http://www.fluidyne.com/pl_catalog.html">Fluidyne</a> aluminum oil coolers.
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/17157/oilcooler.jpg">
They have very little restriction to air flow (as you can probably tell even with this low res pic) and are very lightweight. A full-size cooler that would fit nicely in front of the A/C condensor on an A8/S8 weighs only 4 lb empty or 8 lb filled with oil.
I also like this <A HREF="http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/">Canton</a> oil thermostat. It doesn't open until the oil reaches 102 oC, insuring a quick motor heat-up and not shocking the oil cooler with high pressure oil at start-up. Most other oil thermostats I've seen are full open at 82 oC, which doesn't guarantee that any moisture condensation gets boiled out of the oil.
<img src="http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/oil_cooler_thermostats/22480.jpg">
Everything would be plumbed with -12AN lines, and the water lines to-and-from the existing oil-water cooler would be plugged.
The only problem is making an adapter that bolts to the block to get oil to and from the new hardware. The "connection" used by the current filter/cooler assembly in the pic below is certainly not standard.
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/24433/oil_cooler_back_side_640.jpg">
Anyone have any ideas here?
And replace it with a seperate oil-to-air cooler, remote oil filter, and oil temperature thermostat.
I've been thinking about this ever since I first tracked my S8 in the Summer. Running at full throttle 95% of the time, my water temperature gauge runs within one micron of maximum. The cooling system simply needs more surface area, and I've been looking at these <A HREF="http://www.fluidyne.com/pl_catalog.html">Fluidyne</a> aluminum oil coolers.
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/17157/oilcooler.jpg">
They have very little restriction to air flow (as you can probably tell even with this low res pic) and are very lightweight. A full-size cooler that would fit nicely in front of the A/C condensor on an A8/S8 weighs only 4 lb empty or 8 lb filled with oil.
I also like this <A HREF="http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/">Canton</a> oil thermostat. It doesn't open until the oil reaches 102 oC, insuring a quick motor heat-up and not shocking the oil cooler with high pressure oil at start-up. Most other oil thermostats I've seen are full open at 82 oC, which doesn't guarantee that any moisture condensation gets boiled out of the oil.
<img src="http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/oil_cooler_thermostats/22480.jpg">
Everything would be plumbed with -12AN lines, and the water lines to-and-from the existing oil-water cooler would be plugged.
The only problem is making an adapter that bolts to the block to get oil to and from the new hardware. The "connection" used by the current filter/cooler assembly in the pic below is certainly not standard.
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/24433/oil_cooler_back_side_640.jpg">
Anyone have any ideas here?
02-11-2003, 04:18 AM
#14
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Re: Part numbers-need 2 o-rings for pipe(077 121 437), one pipe(077 117 411A),
Im going to do my own. I can imagine what the stealer would do to me. I have noticed from parts prices mentioned on this board that mine seems to have a surcharge tacked onto his prices. All board suggestions for sources for savings are important to me. It becomes a matter of principle to end run him whenever possible.
02-11-2003, 04:43 AM
#15
AudiWorld Super User
Always ask for the quattro club discount
Even if you aren't a member, usually they lower the price by 10% if not 15%.
BTW, I just joined so I can do my track events!
pw
BTW, I just joined so I can do my track events!
pw
02-11-2003, 06:17 AM
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Benefits of stock oil cooler
Hey,
The stock configuration has a nice benefit that you don't
want to lose. The coolant that cools the oil also helps to
heat it! The coolant warms up way before the oil does. The
oil cooler works as an oil heater until the oil comes up to
full temp! Warm oil works much better than cold oil.
If you need additional cooling, like on the track, then I agree
that adding an separate air - oil cooler will do the trick.
I have just finished installing a Mocal oil cooler on my
944 turbo race car. That should help keep the temps down
on hot days.
Barry
The stock configuration has a nice benefit that you don't
want to lose. The coolant that cools the oil also helps to
heat it! The coolant warms up way before the oil does. The
oil cooler works as an oil heater until the oil comes up to
full temp! Warm oil works much better than cold oil.
If you need additional cooling, like on the track, then I agree
that adding an separate air - oil cooler will do the trick.
I have just finished installing a Mocal oil cooler on my
944 turbo race car. That should help keep the temps down
on hot days.
Barry
02-11-2003, 08:21 AM
#18
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Good point ...
.
ideally you'd keep the oil-water cooler (for the moment ignoring the leakage problem from failing plastics fittings) and just have a water radiator that's big enough to handle the heat load. I'd gladly be willing to lose this benefit of the oil-water cooler, though, to avoid overheating.
The transmission cooler also dumps heat into the radiator, and I've also thought about adding an oil-air cooler for the ATF. My Range Rover had both oil-water and oil-air ATF coolers.
In the end, though, the cooling system just needs more surface area somewhere exposed to air; and it probably doesn't make much difference whether it's used to cool water, oil, or ATF.
Any thoughts on which way you'd go with the A8/S8?
ideally you'd keep the oil-water cooler (for the moment ignoring the leakage problem from failing plastics fittings) and just have a water radiator that's big enough to handle the heat load. I'd gladly be willing to lose this benefit of the oil-water cooler, though, to avoid overheating.
The transmission cooler also dumps heat into the radiator, and I've also thought about adding an oil-air cooler for the ATF. My Range Rover had both oil-water and oil-air ATF coolers.
In the end, though, the cooling system just needs more surface area somewhere exposed to air; and it probably doesn't make much difference whether it's used to cool water, oil, or ATF.
Any thoughts on which way you'd go with the A8/S8?
02-11-2003, 11:56 AM
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Additional oil cooler
Hi Randy,
I would go with an additional oil cooler. It's going to be difficult
to increase the radiator size, and adding an additional rad would
be real tough. Adding an additional oil cooler would be easier,
and Mocal makes oil coolers in all sizes. Most are fairly small.
There appears to be room behind the lower grill area.
Before you make any hardware changes, have you optimized your
stock cooling system? If you know you are going to be running
on the track in hot weather, it might pay for you to drain your
coolant, and fill with straight water and add a bottle or two of
Redine WaterWetter. Also make sure your radiator is in good
condition and not blocked by dirt and debris.
I once hit a bird in my 944 turbo while I was on the track. I didn't
think anything of it until the car started running warmer. The radiator
was full of feathers and worse. After cleaning it, the car cool again.
Barry
I would go with an additional oil cooler. It's going to be difficult
to increase the radiator size, and adding an additional rad would
be real tough. Adding an additional oil cooler would be easier,
and Mocal makes oil coolers in all sizes. Most are fairly small.
There appears to be room behind the lower grill area.
Before you make any hardware changes, have you optimized your
stock cooling system? If you know you are going to be running
on the track in hot weather, it might pay for you to drain your
coolant, and fill with straight water and add a bottle or two of
Redine WaterWetter. Also make sure your radiator is in good
condition and not blocked by dirt and debris.
I once hit a bird in my 944 turbo while I was on the track. I didn't
think anything of it until the car started running warmer. The radiator
was full of feathers and worse. After cleaning it, the car cool again.
Barry
