Do you sometimes wonder if our cars are worth all the effort?
06-11-2005, 01:05 AM
#22
AudiWorld Senior Member
You guys all have wanderlust!
Go out and price cars and drive them. There is no better car on the road today, dollar for dollar, than our A8s. Let me qualify that. If you buy cars new, then cost is no object and the reliability of the cars (relatively speaking) is no concern, because it is all covered under warranty for the intended ownership period. From that stand point, all of the luxury cars are on equal footing and its a matter of taste or needs (awd). In terms of value when purchased new, its is all subjective.
But look at it from the used level. I just bought a 2001 A8L with 50K in pristine condition, all options, for $24k. There is no other car out there like it.
I looked at and drove ALL of the other offerings. A Mercedes S430 with similar mileage and options (w/o awd and less power) runs for around $35k. A Lexus Ls430 (no awd) is more. A 745il is is about the same as the Mercedes. The S430 and 746il have far more problems than any Audi A8--their suspension (S430) and electronic control units are a dogs and only the dealers seems to be able to deal with them. The repair costs are outrageous. The LS430 may be quick, but it is numbing--buy a Cadillac and save $20k. Further, every recent survey I've seen says the LS430 is THE most expensive car to service and repair among the top brands. Relatively, they have fewer problems, but you're kidding yourself if you believe they have no problems. A friend's father dumped his LS430 when the engine needed a full rebuild at $100k. Try a Jaguar, they have the same plummet in resale value as Audis, but you get that minor problem of timing belt tensioner's snapping and destroying the engine.
Before you all start looking at the seemingly greener grass on the other side, do some research. I think you'll find plenty of message boards with people steaming over the unreliability of their Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Lexus.... They all have their problems, including Lexi. In fact, I helped a friend get a rebate on one under the lemon law it sucked so bad.
Look, I'm not happy that Audi's transmissions can give up the ghost at less than 100k, but I know that a fully rebuilt tranny is just $4500 dollars away. So I asked myself, would I buy the Audi A8L with a newly rebuilt tranny for $28.5, or the Mercedes for $35k, or the Lexus for $37k, or the BMW. For me, the answer was very easy, particularly after driving them. In fact, the only car amongst them that I preferred over the Audi from a driving standpoint was the Mercedes, and that's if I was evaluating it solely from a luxury standpoint. From a sport standpoint, all of them, save the BMW, cannot compare to the Audi in driving experience.
Okay, I'll get off my soap box. I just think that when you buy a $70k car, you cannot reasonably hope to keep it running for the cost of a VW bug. I think the guy who said he's going to give up his A8 and get a Subaru said it all. A Subaru?! Nicely executed economy car, but hardly a relevant comparison. It's like a Porsche driver dumping the 911 for a Miata b/c Porsche's tires are too expensive.
Sorry if this response enflames people, but I thought this was an Audi enthusiast site. I'm not blind to their warts, but I do know that they are phenomenal cars when they are working properly, and at the prices we can get into them, I think we are lucky to be driving them. If the peace of mind of having a reliable, dependable, if lackluster or unrefined, car is more valuable to you than having a refined, powerful, uber sedan, so be it. Dump the audi and get your honda, subaru, mazda, nissan...you've got more problems than we can solve on this board....
Just having some fun with ya'all. If you're tired of the Audi experience. Move on. You'll come back.
Cheers.
But look at it from the used level. I just bought a 2001 A8L with 50K in pristine condition, all options, for $24k. There is no other car out there like it.
I looked at and drove ALL of the other offerings. A Mercedes S430 with similar mileage and options (w/o awd and less power) runs for around $35k. A Lexus Ls430 (no awd) is more. A 745il is is about the same as the Mercedes. The S430 and 746il have far more problems than any Audi A8--their suspension (S430) and electronic control units are a dogs and only the dealers seems to be able to deal with them. The repair costs are outrageous. The LS430 may be quick, but it is numbing--buy a Cadillac and save $20k. Further, every recent survey I've seen says the LS430 is THE most expensive car to service and repair among the top brands. Relatively, they have fewer problems, but you're kidding yourself if you believe they have no problems. A friend's father dumped his LS430 when the engine needed a full rebuild at $100k. Try a Jaguar, they have the same plummet in resale value as Audis, but you get that minor problem of timing belt tensioner's snapping and destroying the engine.
Before you all start looking at the seemingly greener grass on the other side, do some research. I think you'll find plenty of message boards with people steaming over the unreliability of their Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Lexus.... They all have their problems, including Lexi. In fact, I helped a friend get a rebate on one under the lemon law it sucked so bad.
Look, I'm not happy that Audi's transmissions can give up the ghost at less than 100k, but I know that a fully rebuilt tranny is just $4500 dollars away. So I asked myself, would I buy the Audi A8L with a newly rebuilt tranny for $28.5, or the Mercedes for $35k, or the Lexus for $37k, or the BMW. For me, the answer was very easy, particularly after driving them. In fact, the only car amongst them that I preferred over the Audi from a driving standpoint was the Mercedes, and that's if I was evaluating it solely from a luxury standpoint. From a sport standpoint, all of them, save the BMW, cannot compare to the Audi in driving experience.
Okay, I'll get off my soap box. I just think that when you buy a $70k car, you cannot reasonably hope to keep it running for the cost of a VW bug. I think the guy who said he's going to give up his A8 and get a Subaru said it all. A Subaru?! Nicely executed economy car, but hardly a relevant comparison. It's like a Porsche driver dumping the 911 for a Miata b/c Porsche's tires are too expensive.
Sorry if this response enflames people, but I thought this was an Audi enthusiast site. I'm not blind to their warts, but I do know that they are phenomenal cars when they are working properly, and at the prices we can get into them, I think we are lucky to be driving them. If the peace of mind of having a reliable, dependable, if lackluster or unrefined, car is more valuable to you than having a refined, powerful, uber sedan, so be it. Dump the audi and get your honda, subaru, mazda, nissan...you've got more problems than we can solve on this board....
Just having some fun with ya'all. If you're tired of the Audi experience. Move on. You'll come back.
Cheers.
06-11-2005, 02:52 AM
#23
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yes to having driven lexus...boring as hell...
sorry, they have no spark, no character. impressive engineering? you bet. will it go wrong? doubt it.
but neither does my fridge, and i can't tell you it's brand.
with the is, lexus is recognising that it needs more sporting character, so maybe the brand will change. but down-under, it's got an even older clientele than mercedes. they are cars for geriatrics.
but neither does my fridge, and i can't tell you it's brand.
with the is, lexus is recognising that it needs more sporting character, so maybe the brand will change. but down-under, it's got an even older clientele than mercedes. they are cars for geriatrics.
06-11-2005, 05:53 AM
#29
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Depends on what you want in a car.
We are so lucky to live in a world where a car can be as much of a personal expression as it is a mode of transport.
How many different new car models are there? Throw in millions of used cars and one can select the perfect car for your lifestyle, right down to the number and location of each cupholder.
The A8 has been my first Audi, so I can only speak to it from an owner's perspective. I own 6 vehicles, some classics (67 Camaro RS/SS, 65 Corvette 396) some workhorse (02 Tahoe, 02 Odyssey). The second I sat behind the wheel of the A8 I knew I had to have one. It fits me perfectly - of all my cars it is the most seductive to drive. It's possesses some of the power of the muscle cars, the luxury of a limo and the stealth of a F-117A all in one package. The interior is impeccable, the way it feels on the road is simply perfect. Quattro gives me ultimate confidence in any weather and the safety features and protection the car offers provides peace of mind that my family is safely cocooned should the worst happen.
Like any mechanical device, it breaks. For a car that does so many things well, I can live with the occasional issue. Call them character flaws that are magnified by an otherwise perfect personality.
If you are passonate about driving, and view the place somewhere betweeen points A & B as the most important part of the journey, then you can most likely justify the service and maintenence issues as a "cover charge" to a great performance.
I love to get on the interstate, hammering down the on ramp in tip, feeling the butter smooth 4.2 pulling me like a freight train...
If you are more concerned about getting from A to B in the most efficient way, and have no real passion or take great pleasure from driving, then a Camry, Accord or Lexus may be the perfect car.
Reliable, albeit a little boring IMHO.
Audipages and this forum give me the confidence to indentify problems and fix them myself when they occur. For the money, I don't think there is a better deal on a truly exiting and supurb automobile.
How many different new car models are there? Throw in millions of used cars and one can select the perfect car for your lifestyle, right down to the number and location of each cupholder.
The A8 has been my first Audi, so I can only speak to it from an owner's perspective. I own 6 vehicles, some classics (67 Camaro RS/SS, 65 Corvette 396) some workhorse (02 Tahoe, 02 Odyssey). The second I sat behind the wheel of the A8 I knew I had to have one. It fits me perfectly - of all my cars it is the most seductive to drive. It's possesses some of the power of the muscle cars, the luxury of a limo and the stealth of a F-117A all in one package. The interior is impeccable, the way it feels on the road is simply perfect. Quattro gives me ultimate confidence in any weather and the safety features and protection the car offers provides peace of mind that my family is safely cocooned should the worst happen.
Like any mechanical device, it breaks. For a car that does so many things well, I can live with the occasional issue. Call them character flaws that are magnified by an otherwise perfect personality.
If you are passonate about driving, and view the place somewhere betweeen points A & B as the most important part of the journey, then you can most likely justify the service and maintenence issues as a "cover charge" to a great performance.
I love to get on the interstate, hammering down the on ramp in tip, feeling the butter smooth 4.2 pulling me like a freight train...
If you are more concerned about getting from A to B in the most efficient way, and have no real passion or take great pleasure from driving, then a Camry, Accord or Lexus may be the perfect car.
Reliable, albeit a little boring IMHO.
Audipages and this forum give me the confidence to indentify problems and fix them myself when they occur. For the money, I don't think there is a better deal on a truly exiting and supurb automobile.
