H&R springs/struts versus stock versus Eibach (one more pic)
03-03-2004, 04:34 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
H&R springs/struts versus stock versus Eibach (one more pic)
With all the talk in the last week about the Eibach spring/Bilstein strut talk, I thought I would add what I have learned.
First, drove to Michigan and back today for a sales call...could not believe how well my car rides the highways (especially ones that are not full of pot holes) and with the new sway bar links I installed the thing is so incredibly tight! I just don't see getting a better combo of ride versus handling than with the H&R's.
I was thinking why I bought them, and remembered doing a lot of research before I figured the H&R's were the only way to go.
The real reason in my mind was that they were a progressive spring. That means that the spring rate changes as it compresses. Look at the pictures below, the spacing between the turns of the springs are not even, it goes from stock like to very tight. This allows it to have a different spring rates at different compression lengths.
The stock and Eibach systems are not progressive, just a simple spring, the same rate in the whole range of the spring.
If you shorten the spring over stock and do not make the spring progressive, you have a chance of it not performing correctly. I'm not expert here, but it makes sense to me. You'll either bottom out the spring if you keep it at the same spring rate as stock, or severely change the ride if you make it stiffer.
Here's stock versus H&R pictures (rear). Note the difference in distance between turns on the H&R versus the stock? The stock has the same distance between turns.
<img src="http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/susp_whls_brake_steer/hr10.JPG">
Here are the fronts, the H&R's also come with new tube assemblies. Note how the bottom of the H&R spring is ground flat to mate to the adjustable sleeve. No wonder they cost twice as much.
<img src="http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/susp_whls_brake_steer/hr11.JPG">
Note the total distance in height between stock and H&R, you can't see the bottom, but they were both sitting on the garage floor.
<img src="http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/susp_whls_brake_steer/hr12.JPG">
Here's what the fronts look like assembled, stock and H&R:
<img src="http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/susp_whls_brake_steer/hr14.JPG">
Here is a picture of the Eibach....I do not know if they are A8 springs, but they are not progressive.
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/13362/prokitsp.jpg">
I don't really have any conclusions, but it dawned on me why I choose the H&R's while driving today. I did a lot of research (so did others on this board at the same time) and came to the conclusion that the H&R was the way to go for me.
Hope this helps.
pw
First, drove to Michigan and back today for a sales call...could not believe how well my car rides the highways (especially ones that are not full of pot holes) and with the new sway bar links I installed the thing is so incredibly tight! I just don't see getting a better combo of ride versus handling than with the H&R's.
I was thinking why I bought them, and remembered doing a lot of research before I figured the H&R's were the only way to go.
The real reason in my mind was that they were a progressive spring. That means that the spring rate changes as it compresses. Look at the pictures below, the spacing between the turns of the springs are not even, it goes from stock like to very tight. This allows it to have a different spring rates at different compression lengths.
The stock and Eibach systems are not progressive, just a simple spring, the same rate in the whole range of the spring.
If you shorten the spring over stock and do not make the spring progressive, you have a chance of it not performing correctly. I'm not expert here, but it makes sense to me. You'll either bottom out the spring if you keep it at the same spring rate as stock, or severely change the ride if you make it stiffer.
Here's stock versus H&R pictures (rear). Note the difference in distance between turns on the H&R versus the stock? The stock has the same distance between turns.
<img src="http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/susp_whls_brake_steer/hr10.JPG">
Here are the fronts, the H&R's also come with new tube assemblies. Note how the bottom of the H&R spring is ground flat to mate to the adjustable sleeve. No wonder they cost twice as much.
<img src="http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/susp_whls_brake_steer/hr11.JPG">
Note the total distance in height between stock and H&R, you can't see the bottom, but they were both sitting on the garage floor.
<img src="http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/susp_whls_brake_steer/hr12.JPG">
Here's what the fronts look like assembled, stock and H&R:
<img src="http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articles/susp_whls_brake_steer/hr14.JPG">
Here is a picture of the Eibach....I do not know if they are A8 springs, but they are not progressive.
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/13362/prokitsp.jpg">
I don't really have any conclusions, but it dawned on me why I choose the H&R's while driving today. I did a lot of research (so did others on this board at the same time) and came to the conclusion that the H&R was the way to go for me.
Hope this helps.
pw
03-03-2004, 05:00 PM
#2
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What is your Total Investment
Bilsteins are approximately $450. How much for the H&R just struts and struts with springs. You are the authority so I would investigate this option as well based on your recommendation. Where do I find these?
03-03-2004, 05:02 PM
#4
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
About $1450 for the front/rear set up
Without installation....I don't think you can get them without the whole kit. I also spent almost $100 on new hardware when I replaced them.
I would not get the shocks alone. Don't even know if the fronts would fit in the stock holders.
I would not get the shocks alone. Don't even know if the fronts would fit in the stock holders.
03-03-2004, 05:52 PM
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Too Rich for My Blood
I am going to get the Bilsteins next week. I am sure the H&R are better. You are in sales, you know the gig. Are they really three times better to justify the cost? Bilsteins have pretty good name recognition, you have to admit. I am on a budget with my car not to exceed two thousand per year. This transmission is going to put me two over budget this year. Damn thing is sluggish but just keeps going..... I drive it twice a week so its fine now.
03-03-2004, 06:06 PM
#6
My conclusions from riding/driving many cars with lowering springs. Both progressive, and linear.
A progressive spring will give you different characteristics depending on the amount it is compressed. It also changed the cars feeling depending on its "loading" in turns and switchbacks.
My personal thoughts on a bunch of cars with both. My main observations are in one of my supras that I have had both progressive and linear rate springs. My supra, has had intrax progressive, and eibach linear rate springs, each were in about two years. Other Supras I have driven (same make year as my car), have had tokico linear rate and B&M progressive rate.
A linear rate spring is easier to drive hard. The limits are the same when pushing the car, no matter how deep the turn. You will never be very surprised by a linear rate springs reactions. linear rate springs usually have a harder/heavier spring rate, for a firm ride, but can be pushed hard, with confidence. Very predictable.
Progressive rate springs will make the car feel different often. Making it harder to react quickly to the car, not knowing where the sweet spot is. Progressive springs are made to feel like stock with normal driving, but will stiffen up when the car is pushed. Less predictable.
This will probably feel very differently in a large car like an A8, but that does not mean the differences will flip around. Just means the differences might be "muted" a bit. Look in the race cars, you will see linear springs in most, if not all.
My personal thoughts on a bunch of cars with both. My main observations are in one of my supras that I have had both progressive and linear rate springs. My supra, has had intrax progressive, and eibach linear rate springs, each were in about two years. Other Supras I have driven (same make year as my car), have had tokico linear rate and B&M progressive rate.
A linear rate spring is easier to drive hard. The limits are the same when pushing the car, no matter how deep the turn. You will never be very surprised by a linear rate springs reactions. linear rate springs usually have a harder/heavier spring rate, for a firm ride, but can be pushed hard, with confidence. Very predictable.
Progressive rate springs will make the car feel different often. Making it harder to react quickly to the car, not knowing where the sweet spot is. Progressive springs are made to feel like stock with normal driving, but will stiffen up when the car is pushed. Less predictable.
This will probably feel very differently in a large car like an A8, but that does not mean the differences will flip around. Just means the differences might be "muted" a bit. Look in the race cars, you will see linear springs in most, if not all.
