I think Audi needs a redesign on the redesign of the A8 before it hits the market!!! The spy shots
 

<center><img src="http://detnews.com/pix/sneakpeek/cars/2003audia8.jpg"></center><p>look ten times better than what they've come up with. Sure they were photochoped, but take, some hints Audi? I mean what happened, I thought, we were going to be a more sporting brand sense completely separating from VW. No longer would Audi have to be that luxury conservative brand for VW, VW would do it's own thing, and Audi would concentrate on making sport luxury sedans. But the New A8 looks like a rebadged, VW Pheaton?

Come on Audi, the new 7 series, and 3 year old S-Class look about ten times more sporting then the Audi Pheaton, ... I mean Audi A8?

Check out the spy picks and photochops of what the car should have been, if Audi had went that way, man would the car have been hot, look at the Avantissimoish lights, look at the quad tail pipes and the arse on her ... All, I can say to Audi on the new A8 is, a very homer simpsonish, "DOH!!!"?

Check linx to pix

http://www.eforecourt.com/body.htm/pid/118/catagory/Spy

http://pc99.detnews.com/autosinsider/sneakpeek/index.hbs?myrec=12

http://www.ecomcars.co.uk/newcarsecrets/spypictures/feb_2002/audi/audi.html

Maybe one of these more aggressive designs will make it into the next S8, and RS8.

The new head of Audi has said...
 

in a few different interviews that it was too early to take this more aggressive approach with the new A8. And since the design of the car was probably completed well in advance of VW group's realignment I don't think that it's much of a surprise that Audi has taken more of a conservative approach with the A8.

My hopes are pinned on the new A3 and A6 for picking up the new more sporty, aggressive mantle.

let's hope, waiting on new S4 myself. Hope it's a widebody.

Re: The new head of Audi has said...
 

let's all not forget the RSR :9~
simply has some great specs for the price they are aiming for..
120.000$

The VW Phaeton and Audi A8 will share alot more than you think
 

as will the Bentley GT, Audi RSR and "baby" Lambo. Of course they aren't going to publicly say that now are they. Don't laugh too hard at the Phaeton when it comes here with a W12 for less money than the A8 V8.

Agree With You Completely, The New A8 is Disappointing
 

To say the very least, yes the pictures you posted, show a far more aggressive stance, and truly set an identity for the car. Just when it looked like Audi was the one remaining German Auto maker to have a clue in desigh aesthetics, this is what they come up with?
The Phaeton will be it's cheaper sibling I suppose, reminds me of the Toyota/Lexus relationship! I was hopeful and with all the pics that you posted and I had seen previously, I really thought Audi would make this a spectacular car.....What the F**king hell happened to the Avantissimo design STUDY!!!!!!!!!!!

the new agressive mantle is already won........
 

by the soon to be here RS6, which if I was going to buy an Audi, would be my choice.......I won't bash the new A8 until I see it up close and personal, but from what they have shown, I'm much less than impressed, and a bit more than disappointed......I personally think Audi just got scared sh!tless seeing the disaster the 745 was, and couldn't go with an agressive stance....my biggest disappointments are, in order

1.) that UGLY ass light wood trim, maybe it won't make it into production, but if it does, my god, thats just ugly looking.

2.) I was really hoping for more of a Hp bump......the '97 I owned never felt underpowered at 300 Hp, but I was really hoping for a more sizeable jump. I know it's a luxury car, not a drag car, but I guess I was being greedy.

3.) The butt......I never liked the A6 big rounded look, and the new A4 has slowly been growing on me, kinda like a fungus, but I like it more than when I first saw it, the A8 looks like a Jennifer Lopez sized version of the A4 butt.

4.) I am guessing that the cup holders are hidden in that closed compartment under the Audi version of the "i" drive thingie is?? if they are under the armrests again I'm just gonna be shaking my head.....Maybe Audi really doesn't listen to the little complaints and fixes them, or maybe it's true that the people over on the other side of the pond really don't care, meaning they don't care what we want (this is probably pretty true)

5.) And this is just being annoying, but those 12 spoke rims are just too ugly (and BMWish) for me, but thats something that is easily fixable.....

I saw they upgraded the braking system, hopefully it is signifigantly better than the current brakes. I like the 6 speed tip, hopefully a manual will come stateside, but I won't hold my breath for it. I also like the idea of the adaptive suspension, and the stiffer frame, hopefully this will help all the little rattles we all experienced after driving the car a little bit.....

For those of you who like the car, more power to you.....I know some people who like the lines of the 745 a lot, I just disagree, I was hoping for something different, something a bit more agressive, more stylish. I'm very curious to see the look of the new A6 now, since that seems to be the model that is leading the product line.

They have to leave something for the S8 :-)

IMO, the Avantissimo is tremendously ugly
 

I am glad Audi did not use that design for the A8. Hopefully Audi will not use the Avantissimo design for the new A6, either.

Perhaps we must wait for the Next A8!

dunno about ugly, but i'm *so* glad it's not the a8

oh the irony; get a grip man.

Re: the new agressive mantle is already won........
 

The light wood trim will probably make it to production. However, it will most likely be offered in Europe only. Americans will most likely only get the dark wood trim. This is because the light wood trim appeals to a very scarce few Americans. I, like you am most certainly not one of them. I hope the black and grey interiors will have a dark cherry color wood and the beige interior(s) a dark mahogany color wood.

I really like the new A8
 

Everytime I see the current model on the streets, it exudes class and simply looks beautiful. With this new design, they've kept the overall cut of the A8 and simply updated it. BMW tried to go the sporty new age look with the new 7 and people aren't exactly rejoicing about it. If I'm disappointed about anything on the new A8 it would be the engine choices. I think there should be too models...a 350hp regular or long wheelbase A8, and a 400plus hp S8.

disclaimer...i don't know crap about cars...just know what i like :o)

Agree

what are you talking about the 7-series looks quite sporty have you seen it?
 

and so does the MB S-Class, both of these cars have style and a distinct look about them. The cat eye's of the S-Class is gourgeous. Sweeping curves of the 7 Series are voluptuos. The A8, exudes, nothing, it's bland, it has nothing about it that stands out, nothing, that would make me take a second look when I see it on the road.
If I were not an Audi fan, I probably wouldn't care to know, who made it.

MB and BMW both managed to stay conservative with their flagships, yet, still offer sportiness, and a style, that would make the likes of hip-hop star Jay-Z feature them in his video, as well as sported by any NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, player ... while at the same time appealing to politicians, and so on and so forth ... the A8 inspire's nothing. It stirs up nothing.

The fact of the matter is BMW and MB do so much more, than just be "conservative" with their flagships, along with MB's S-Class classy, sporty, stylish looks, the amenities can't be touched, the car has a stiched leather dash board, for god's sake. The BMW's idrive is marvelous, and the drive ... the A8 excels at nothing in this class, the looks, boring, the drive fairly good, the luxuries (lacking), ... and so on ... Audi has never done the A8 justice, it's done so well, with the A4 and A6, I just don't understand how they can continually drop the ball on the A8. It looks like a VW Pheaton, with 4 rings on it, in fact I like the Pheaton more than I like the A8.


The A8 is about as boring and bland and uninspiring as any Acura on the market, and god knows those car, take the official "average" award.

When you see the flagship of a Car company, it should stir the blood, you should think one day ... just maybe ... if I save enough I can have one. The A8 lack of success in comparison to the BMW 7 Series and MB S-Class, is a direct result, of the lack of inspiration as well as overall averageness that the A8 exudes.

Audi was moving in the right direction with the Avantissimo, more of it's design should have made it into the A8. The Avantissimo was regal, yet sporty, stylish, and had all the gizmo and gadgets any luxury man could ask for?

The Avantissimo had Keyless entry, litterally, keyless entry you don't need a key, MB has been doing this for several years now, with their Security Card system, which allows access to the car, and uses laser/radio frequency electronic keys. Audi has designed a similar system, why didn't it make it into the A8?

I could go on about why the A8 is dull, and as any man, who requires luxury, style, class and inspiration would look else where. But, hey, if you guys like it, well I love it.

When one see's the flag ship

no one is saying take all of the Avantissmo, but there are so much style and technology
 

that could have been borrowed. The Avantissmo interior is gourgeous, the luxury appointments would rival anything that MB could ever contrive, the Bi-Xenon Advanced lighting system should have made it into the A8, there are so many things that should have been borrowed from the Avantissimo, I'm not asking them to build the car, I'm not much for wagons, but the Avantissimo had so many technological advances and styling queue's that should have been used, to give the A8 the style, inspiration, technology and class to compete in a very competative market. Basically, Audi just rebadged the Pheaton, and that is in a word, "DULL!!!!!"

Please read on the Avantissimo, please read about the Advanced Security Entry System, the Control System, the Lighting System, I mean luxury is about having "sh*t" no man in his right mind should ever need. The A8 gives you none of that.

For gods sake, the damn door sills of MB are illuminated with the words Mercedes, and the illumination can be in colors such as green, yellow, blue, red, purple, I mean whats the point ... ? Am I going to look down at the sill, and say hey look, theres Mercedes written in neon I must now buy one, probably not, but it looks luxurious it looks pointless, which is what luxury is all about. I mean the damn doors on the MB S-Class close by themselves, Lexus also has this feature for the LS430, but when those door shut it's like being in your own personal jet. This is style, technology, and pampering Audi just lacks with A8. It's just too bad.


The A8, is bland, boring, technologically uninspiring (except for some engine mechanics), and for the most part behind the curve and standard set by Mercedes and BMW. I'm disappointed. Audi was doing so well, the A6, and A4 (the car that brought Audi back to life) were such a forward step, I could never see Audi making this backword move.

By the way Audi, if your listening, can you get some better "rims"?

Please revisit pictures of the Avantissimo, and see just how gourgeous that interior was, read up on it's technology, and you'll be wondering why some of those enhancements never made it, into the A8.

A8 = average = dull = uninspiring.

are you mad, the S-Class has stitched leather dash boards, you call that sh*t
 

I the biggest Audi fan, but I'm more of a fan of truth, your mad if you think Audi A8 technology even remotely touches the S-Class Interior Technologies. The S-Class has stiched leather dash board, 16-way power seats, front and back, it also, has airconditioned seats for all occupants, I mean I could go on and on, MB doesn't even use keys any more, they have key cards you can slip in your pocket or wear around your neck, and when you get close to the doors they will unlock or lock as you walk away from the car, the keys that MB do have are not "laser cut" but they are actual laser+radio frequency transmitters, that electronically open and unlock the door, MB luxury technology is pretty unparalled. If you think the interior the A8 is can touch leather/wood dashboards and such your crazy.

The new A3 will also be a conservative design..
 

It will not, apparently, be based on the Steppenwolf concept as was reported previously. But rather, it will be an evolution of the current A3. Too bad, as I really liked the Steppenwolf. We might have to wait for the next A6 for another Audi design revolution.

I don't what 2Tonic was saying, but the A8 looks very much like the Pheaton
 

What picture's have you been looking at? The cars look nearly identical? Put 4 rings on the Audi Pheaton and A big W on the Volks Wagon A8, and you'd never no the difference.

Have you even read the press release? The new A8 has ...
 

many features found on the Avantissimo
ALS (Adaptive lighting system)
MMI (similair to i-drive)
Adaptive Air suspension
ACC (Adaptive cruise control)
And of course ASF (now 60% more rigid)

Keyless entry, and more general observations
 

mmmmhhh....
you seem to go over and over again about that keyless entry... It sounds like the A8 will have something of that nature with a gradual remote authorization as the driver approaches the car.

Their system might be described in 6 words in the press release, but they already presented it a few months ago in a another press release.
Just bringing my modest contribution...

IMHO, the car does not look revolutionnary but it certainly does not look bad. If I'm not mistaken, the first A8's strength was its aluminum chassis and its technology, its style was somewhat the conclusion of an styling era for Audi.

I believe that this is what they want to do this time too:
In the latest Automobile Magazine, there is an interview of VW group's big boss, Mr Pischetsrieder confirming that the new A8's role is not to push Audi's style forward, that role incombs to other models (remember a certain TT, or an A6, both of which defined the neo-bauhaus direction of Audi!).

I think the next iteration will come with the A3 and the A6 in the coming 2 years.
Until then... I'd really be curious to see the A8 "in the metal" because pictures can be deceptive.

yes I have it did take some, MMI, ... etc .. but more styling queues should
 

have been taken, the car, still looks bland, the security access system should have been used, the bi-xenon lights, etc ... my point is in comparison to the BMW 7-Series and especially the MB S-Class, CL, SL ...(etc any of MB's super luxo class cars), the Audi A8, is just not up to par, Air suspension(not new) MB has been using it, also, check out new electronic breaking system on SL, the point is the A8 has made some improvements, it's just not enough to compete in class, especially since (they have an extra year or two years for release in comparison their competitors).

The A8 stylistically is very lacking, it exudes nothing, I mean when you look at the car, what do you think of?

I think of nothing, if I had to come up with words to describe the styling, I think bland, dull and boring, conservative. That's not a good thing.

I look at the S-Class, and think stealthy, cool, look at them cat eye's it looks like the car, is just gliding up on me like a graceful beast.

I look at the 7-Series, and I think sporty, robust, voluptuous, powerful, quick definitely a bimmer.

I don't get much of any feeling when I look at the new A8, except for average, well ok, there's another car on the road, it stirs nothing?

No, I think your misunderstanding me, ....
 

It's not a question of pushing Audi's styling forward, it's a question of competing in your class. The A8, is revolutionary, by maybe Audi standards as far as technology and styling etc, ... is concerned but not so for it's class. The MMI system even is already been employed by BMW. The point I'm trying to get at is that my feeling is the flag ship of a car company, by default, should be just that a flag ship, a means to say to the world da*n't we've got the biggest guns on the block. You should look upon that vessel as though it is a marvel a wonder, it announces your arrival.

The A8 does none of that, stylistically, or technologically, it in appearance and attributes save for the MMI system, is just another luxury car, it's just the average the norm, nothing new under the soon.

as for the keyless entry, the car certainly has a key, look at the console. What I was talking about with MB is even the key is state of the art, MB was the first to use laser cut keys, etc they are the first and only to use, laser/radio frequency encoded keys and the key card is a marvel, is it necessary no(but is anything luxury necessary) ... their technology is always a step ahead of everyone else. The electronic brakes, etc ...

And this is what I'm saying is missing with the A8, when we talk about luxury, we are talking about the unnecessary, the A8 is a good car, I'm not saying that it isn't. It's built well, but so what, so is every other luxury that's why it's called luxury. It has a few gadgets but so what, so does everyone else.

The A8 has all the standards, but what makes the car stand out, nothing, it's average, it's boring, it's not innovative, it's not revolutionary, MMI (well BMW beat them too the punch, old news) ... but do you see what I'm trying to say. The A8 is a good car, no doubt, but it has nothing to it that would make it stand out in it's class.

The A8 uninspiring, that's the only way I can describe it. Audi has great technology in the works, and has momentum, and I felt they could have continued that moment with an A8 that set the bar, not tried to just meet it.

MB's and BMW both try to be that much ahead of the rest in it's class, and it's the very reason why the S-Class and 7-Series are the best sellers in this class. Save for American made Lincolns and Catty's.

Geez, let's wait until...
 

people have had a chance to test drive the new A8 before proclaiming that it brings nothing to the table.

acadia is certainly right in saying that the A8 does not match the S-class in terms of gadgets, but if the 60% increase in rigidity and new suspension were done well the A8 could very well be the better of the S-class in terms of driving pleasure (and for some people -- even rich people -- that's more important than gadgets).

Re: the new agressive mantle is already won........
 

&gt;&gt;The light wood trim will probably make it to production. However, it will most likely be offered in Europe only. Americans will most likely only get the dark wood trim.&lt;&lt;

I thought it was the other way around? Aren't beige interiors anathema in Europe?

Looks to me like Audi was trying to mimic the look of the Lexus SC 430 with all that beige and light wood. Quite tacky in my opinion, I can't wait to see the car with a dark interior.

Where did you hear that...
 

about the A3? If that's true I'll be really disappointed. I too am a big fan of the Steppenwolf and if the new A3 will also be conservative than what the hell is Audi waiting for vis-a-vis their new "aggressive" approach?

Based on posts I've seen here, I think your views on the 7 represent the minority
 

Don't get me wrong...I actually like the new 7, and I love the S class, but most of the responses to the styling of the 7 have been lukewarm at best. Many here at Audiworld have blasted the styling of the new 7. There is a point where the more modern, sporty looking vehicle becomes too much of a good thing, and that seems to be the case with the new 7 (again, based on comments here, at vwvortex, among many other places). I think we all assume that Audi owners are all enthusiasts who enjoy a car with a sporty (for lack of a better word) enthusiast feel to it. Yet, the beauty of the A8 has always been it's clean, understated yet classic styling. IMO, and it's only mine, they've done a good job keeping the car along those same lines, while refreshing the overall design. As is the case with the current A8, those who don't own one will never know what they're missing...

That is what the European press is reporting...
 

but I hope they are wrong, as there has not been any spy shots of the new A3 taken.

With a new boss and new head of design, Audi will once agian push the envelope when it comes to design. But the question is when and with which model.

new 7 Series is tremendously ugly, though.
 

IMO, the new A8 is way nicer than that awful new 7 Series.

Have faith and give the new A8 a chance
 

Maybe when it comes out and you see it in person, you will like it awhole lot. Just because Audi's keyless entry system and many of the avantissimo's other technological features were not mentioned in the new A8 article does not mean it will not have them. That list of new technological features for the new A8 in that article is very brief and the list is very small. A vast majority of these technological are not listed because there is no room to list all of them.

Only the 600s have stitched leather dashboards, the others have ****ty plastic.

Ok, I'm just saying, look at the sales in comparison to BMW 7 and S Class?
 

Obviously, for all it's understated luxury ... no ones noticing it, what so ever, the Audi A4 and TT and then the new A6 put Audi back on the map, it was Audi's willing ness to create innovative, luxurious, yet sporty cars, that got them back on track.

The understated thing wasn't working, so, why don't you stick with plan B, the plan that made your name, glorious once again.


Imagine if Audi, had tried to take the A4, into the realm of reliable hondaish nothing rash type direction, after it's early 90's and 80's woes, instead of saying the hell with what people think, we are gonna get back on the ball with fresh daring designs. I'll tell you what Audi would still be in the realm of understatement, and lowered sales if they had taken that route.

The bottom line is they can stay with all that understatement stuff, but it wasn't and isn't going to help their sells, only when they have been brave, and at the fore front of their industry have they been successful. So, my question, is why take a step backwards now?

The new A8 will continue to have lack luster sales just like the old A8.

new 7 will have tremendously more sales than A8, so call it what you want

not so, and last time check none of the A8 models have it?

all the cars in their class drive well, it's a question of gadgets and extraneous luxury
 

when you get into this class. You don't see the A8, Q45 etc, being sported in the latest Hip-HOp Video or being driven in Arco Arena by Chris Webber, or .... for a reason, the car will appeal to a select few. But none of the afored mentioned cars will match the sales of the S-Class because none have that Luxurious exclusivity that S-Class brings, when, you get into that car, your like "damn" there is really alot of "sh*t" in here I don't need. The LS430 Lexus is the only one that come's close, and I was definitely wowed when I got in it, I mean the damn back seat has built in massagers in LS430, there's a wine cooler as well, I mean the car just has stuff you don't need in it.

The Audi has great fit and finish, Avantissimo interior defintely had that wow factor when I saw it, sure, the A8 interior pics are nice, but I don't go wow. I do go wow for that Avantissimo, furthermore, when you get into this class of cars, generally buyers are used to the best. So, it's not about just making them think, hmmm ... this is a nice car, you need to wow, them. And the A8 just ain't wowin me.

how about all models, I mean, do you see MB or BMW going well wait the
 

S-Class, the SL, CL, the new E Class, the new CLK and SLK, are just to damn appealing? I mean the old SLK was hideous, but they fixed it. The E class is the #1 seller in the A6, BMW 5-Series class, and it was the king of classic, but you know what MB was afraid to make the new E more refreshing, and it definitely went a step up.

I love Audi, I was attracted to Audi by the A4, I was 16, I saw it on the road, I had no idea what it was, or who made it, but I had to find out. The minute I saw it, I was like damn.

the TT, the A6, the same thing, although by then I knew Audi had arrived, but it's a shame, they are now trying to step backwards?

Re: new 7 will have tremendously more sales than A8, so call it what you want
 

If you love the 7 Series and hate the A8 as much as you do then buy a 7 Series instead of the A8 then go to the E65 7 Series boards.

I have sat in the 2000+ S430 and S500 several times at auto shows
 

The dashboards have cheap, ****ty plastic on them. I know because I touched it and looked at it very closely. I saw absolutely no stitching in the dashboard. In North America, only the S600 has a leather stitched dashboard. Maybe you are talking about European spec S Class models. Do you live in Europe?

Okay, then maybe the light wood trim will not make it to production at all
 

In fact, I hope it doesn't. When you said the light wood trim looks tacky, you hit the nail right on the head. Maybe all interior colors will have dark wood. I am hoping for dark cherry with the black and grey interiors and mahogany (a dark brown wood) with the beige interior(s).