TwoTonic

If you have a chance to see the Feb 2009 Car and Driver, they have a wrap-up on their Long-Term Test of a D3 S8... they basically really like the car but, notably, were surprised at maintenance costs for ordinary items. (Headlamp? $961. Air filter? $71. Front pads? $175. Seat controller? $1193!)

Given a fender-bender they had with the car, which cost almost $30K to fix, and high wheel-and-tire replacement costs, they seemed to summarize "great car, but beware the repair costs".

I'm happier than ever to own D2s that are several years old, but for which the repair costs are more bounded (especially with great resources like AudiWorld and AudiPages to consult) and which have had the bulk of the depreciation paid for by someone else. This dime-on-the-dollar thing for a nice German luxury car is pretty cool!

TT

csandbothe

I love the D3 and my current D2 S8, but I think any German car is going to rack up your repair bills. If you think some of those bills are bad, check out the ones on my Porsche 951. Or for something really ugly, go over to rennlist and check the repair bills of the Porsche 928! In the end, they may cost more, but in my book they are most definitely worth it.

icsamerica

2400$ in repair bills on a 80,000$ car is about 3% of MSRP. Not bad if you ask me. I've spent about the same amount on my 2000 D2 over the last two years. As a % of what I paid, it's more like 15%. Not bad either.

Status cars will always cost more to repair becasue of a lack of spares as a result of low production and high quality. If you want to run a rare car you have to pay up to be in that club. Whether it's worth it or not is a individual decision.

Case in point...I was looking for D2 S8 front knuckles to retro fit to my A8. I couldn't find them at all, there just aren't that many cars to begin with and they last so there isn't a scrap pool of parts at the ready. Ironically I ended up retrofitting Porsche 928 Brembo's to my A8. Porsche brakes are great. It pays to be crafty... I recently bought a set of 928 Bendix Euro performance brake pads on Rockauto for 23$.

It pays to do-it-yourself. A case in point is the recent D2 fuel pump replacement development and the many other solutions forged on this board. If you go to the dealer you're going to get killed. Those building and the people that work aren't free.

I got in to fixing cars because of my 928 Ownership. I just couldn't find anyone who knew the car well and I often got my 928 back with more broken parts that when it went in. So I bought a factory service manual and learned. Case in point...I had my 928 transmission rebuilt 3 times, each time it would shift fine for a few weeks then start grinding on 2nd gear. After spending about 9,000$ on rebuilds I was pissed. I had the best known 928 people working on it, 928 International and PAR Cars in Westchester, NY. I eventually figured out the problem myself. It turned out to be a bad bearing in the torque tube. A 60$ part was causing drag and over loading the synchros.

I'm currently restoring a 300ZX Twin Turbo flood car. Because of high production number and many shared parts with the non-turbo cars the parts are available and super cheap. I recently paid 50$ for a complete front knuckle with hub, bearing, control arms and ABS sensor.

As some one who's owned a few 928 I can tell you they are very difficult cars to maintain and get running right. They are down right frustrating and unrewarding. The Z32 300zx is superior in every way but the 928 is worth more because it's a Porsche and there is limited production. The 300zx is just a Nissan and at this point in my life that's OK.

audikillsbmw

Price for a new front bumper: $55. Compare that to my A6, which is somewhere around $600. New headlight: under $40. Compare that to my A6, which is $500 per headlight. Audi's are great, but the repairs can be killer. I don't feel bad about leaving the fold though. I have two Audi notches in my belt now, and a lot of great memories.

TwoTonic

Actually, C&D lists well over $10,000 of repairs (outside the $30,000 'fender bender' fix) during their time with the D3-S8. Against a $95,000 Base Price, that's over 10%. Just seems like a lot.

I have a difficult time excusing the hubris of the manufacturers/dealers that are asking $1300 to change a fuel pump that would be $200 on a Cadillac CTS or gouging up $1100 in parts to repair a small fuel leak that should cost under $100 to fix. (Having recently had both these failures, and repaired both items in my own garage, less than $200 for fuel pump, less than $8 for the fuel leak.)

I personally believe this issue is a little out of control for the German makes. The old classic W126 Mercedes 'boats' could generally be counted on to run 300-400K miles with little maintenance. As of the last S-Class, the Mercedes has worse reliability than a Hyundai.

My old E30 BMW ran forever on minimum maintenance. Meanwhile, I'm forever putting power steering pumps (class problem!) in my newer M5.

Having said this, I admit that I have quite a number of classic Porsches, from early 60s 911s through to 993 and 996 Twin Turbos. And, I have to say they have far exceeded expectations for reliability and maintenance cost. My beloved 911 Carrera has been one of the least expensive cars to maintain that I've ever owned. That's great engineering!

As for the D2s and D3s, I'm thrilled to drive D2s in this snow and ice, especially for less than 10% of what they cost new. A little DIY and they are downright affordable to operate.

The D3s will have to depreciate a few more years before the entry cost savings can offset the breathtaking maintenance expenses.

JMHO,
TT

TwoTonic

My college car, decades ago, was an Oldsmobile. I used to joke that in 150,000 miles I'd never paid more than $29.95 to replace any component on the darn thing. It was true, too. Power steering pump, alternator, fan blower, wiper motor. You name it! It was always in stock at the local auto parts store and it never cost more than $30.

Of course, McDonald's burgers were 15 cents and beer at the bar near campus was sometimes only a nickel.

icsamerica

I work for many auto franchises as the IT guy. My customers include Audi, BMW, VW, Mitsu, Toyota, Chrysler, Chevrolet, Hyundai, & Subaru. These are very expensive oprerations to run, the cost of realestate, environmental compliance, insurance, personell, tools, training etc is astronomical. Most of the sales opeations loose $$$ or break even at best. The profits to keep them going is from service and parts. It's a real tough business model. Over charging for service isn't right but it's a reality.

Indeed, D3 will depreciate and inovation by the enthuiast will increase so at some point in the future they'll be a great buy.

As an aside... the period from 2002 to 2008 was historical and an anomally. Becasue of the Enconomy and energy shock I dont think we'll see too many cars like the D3 S8, R8, Phaeton, RS6, XJR, 760li and the like for some time.

You are so right about the W126. I have a 1983 300SD W126 with 292k and a complete repair histroy from when it was new. The history alone was interesting to me and worth the 400$ I paid for the car. I runs it on greese or diesel depending on the temp. Amazing Car! Parts are cheap, it's simple, well designed and easy to work on. Every auto enthuiast should own a W126. They are quiet, tight and offer a great blend of road feel, isolation and driving dynamics. They are a text book example on how to make a car right. My w126 has one computer and it broke long ago (cruise control). Everything else works perfectly. When I travel and have to leave my car at the airport for 7 days or more I take the W126. It always starts becasue there are no electronics to kill the battery.

karl454

audi 90. costs me tons to keep it going, but the thing was like a snowmobile in the snow. i was always smiling unless i was at the parts counter. in the long run i say its worth it. now i have an A8, and my buds told me "you never learn do you?". they have never driven an audi so they dont understand.

pkrasusky

...there's no way in heck we'd pay those prices for parts. We're savy enough to source and sometimes install them ourselves.

So 'this' mitigates this alleged high service cost of ownership.

AND

don't you forget my very best friend in the world:

THE EXTENDED WARRANTY

Repair bills should always be someone else's problem IMO after all 8-).

My trans is slipping when coldcoldcold out for 1st mile from 1 to 2 - and I'm PSYCHED!

Me... the D3 //S8 is hiiiiiiiiiiiigh on my 'next' list, oh yes <<<taps devilsh fingers together>>>.

How could it not be? I was just (again) this a.m. saying over and over again to mesself how frickin REWARDING my //S8 ownership has been, how daily smitten I am with it, and how fookin awesome a car it is overall.

I was just saying to Rossato last night as we tinkered underhood of his urS6 that (initial leaks aside) I have found myself tinkering with my D2 INCREDULOUSLY LESS (read: not at all) compared to my former urS6. It's absurd.

Bring it on, bish - I say!

8-)



ps. you wanna puke, thumb through my 930 stack of receipts from PO - eeegads better him than me (like $13+k in 2yrs / 5k miles)...


pps. my bud got an RS6 with recent stealer invoices from PO which included an $11k (ELEVEN!) timing belt job (fark!), and a $7500 DRC suspension fix. Now there's WTF for ya...

csandbothe

Definitely, having these cars serviced (w/o a warranty) at a dealership is akin to lighting your money on fire. I unfortunately do not have the necessary skills to do much work myself, but I do have an excellent indy mechanic that I know isn't screwing me. I bought a warranty for the S8 from Bruce. We'll see how it works out, as it's the first time I have bought one.