So, it is day 8 with Mobil1 synthetic ATF and there is absolutely no change in my tranny's behavior.
01-30-2005, 06:50 PM
#11
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
There is a machine look like this.
When you start the car, the tranny pump changes the fluid itself.
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/80919/fluid_changer.1.jpg">
<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/80919/fluid_changer.1.jpg">
01-30-2005, 07:00 PM
#14
AudiWorld Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I developed hunting after I switched back to audi atf
I switched to redline atf and everything was fine. No hunting. Then I listened to the board who said youre gonna kill your tranny if you dont use audi atf only. I switched back to audi atf and I suddently had a hunt in 5th. Somebody has got to make up their mind
01-30-2005, 09:05 PM
#16
A clue as to why ZF went to LT 71141, and yes it relates to hunting
http://www.lubrizol.com/ReadyReference/DrivelineLubricants/14-atf/default.asp says "Service fill ATFs for ZF passenger car automatic transmissions not fitted with a continuously slipping torque converter are listed on ZF TE-ML 11A (DEXRONŽ IID) and ZF TE-ML 11B(DEXRONŽ III). ZF passenger car automatic transmissions fitted with a continuously slipping torque converter are factory fill for life with a dedicated fluid."
We know what "factory fill for life with a dedicated fluid" means (i.e. not what it says), but what is "a continuously slipping torque converter"? It doesn't mean an old transmission without a converter clutch, because those such as a 3HP22 use 11A or 11B fluid. If it means that the clutch spends time slipping in a regulating phase, between fully locked and unlocked, then that is exactly what our cars do when coasting at speed. If a goal of LT 71141 is to provide different friction characteristics across the torque converter clutch when it slips, then reverting to Dexron III in the form of Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF might break the hunting cycle by changing how the torque converter clutch slips or engages. Have you noticed anything like that?
Also, notice in the ZF document at http://www01apps.zf.com/kst464/ZF_InteroeleV2_download/download.asp?doStatistik=1&doMode=1&mode=3 &doID=1&id=633 that LT 71141 is allowed in ZF transmissions requiring 11B (Dexron III-based) fluid, but not the other way around which is what you're now doing. This suggests LT 71141 does something Dexron III can't, even if they be (note the subjunctive; I'm not saying they are) chemically compatible with the same clutch and seal materials.
If this information and these inferences are correct, a ZF engineer might say that Dexron III breaks a TCU-commanded hunting cycle by causing something else in the transmission -- the torque converter clutch -- to not really behave as intended. Whether two wrongs make a right will depend on consequences.
Tom
We know what "factory fill for life with a dedicated fluid" means (i.e. not what it says), but what is "a continuously slipping torque converter"? It doesn't mean an old transmission without a converter clutch, because those such as a 3HP22 use 11A or 11B fluid. If it means that the clutch spends time slipping in a regulating phase, between fully locked and unlocked, then that is exactly what our cars do when coasting at speed. If a goal of LT 71141 is to provide different friction characteristics across the torque converter clutch when it slips, then reverting to Dexron III in the form of Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF might break the hunting cycle by changing how the torque converter clutch slips or engages. Have you noticed anything like that?
Also, notice in the ZF document at http://www01apps.zf.com/kst464/ZF_InteroeleV2_download/download.asp?doStatistik=1&doMode=1&mode=3 &doID=1&id=633 that LT 71141 is allowed in ZF transmissions requiring 11B (Dexron III-based) fluid, but not the other way around which is what you're now doing. This suggests LT 71141 does something Dexron III can't, even if they be (note the subjunctive; I'm not saying they are) chemically compatible with the same clutch and seal materials.
If this information and these inferences are correct, a ZF engineer might say that Dexron III breaks a TCU-commanded hunting cycle by causing something else in the transmission -- the torque converter clutch -- to not really behave as intended. Whether two wrongs make a right will depend on consequences.
Tom
01-30-2005, 10:38 PM
#17
AudiWorld Super User
Any professional shop with a trans flush machine can do it as long as the have Audi adapters
to the cooler lines. I know BG does, because we have them in my shop and that is what I used to completely flush my transmission with synthetic ATF about 20K miles ago with great results. My trans ran perfect before and runs perfect now.
Trans flush machines hook up in line with the cooler lines. The trans pump pressure pumps fluid into the machine and a pump in the machine pumps an equal amount of new ATF. We usually run about 14 to 16 qts of fluid to completely flush a transmission. We can monitor pump pressure and the actual fluid. My fluid was black when we started but was blood red when we finished.
The filter and gasket and o-ring has to be done after the flush when changing different type of fluid. In about 10K, I am going to flush my ATF but not replace the filter. I think I'm going to flush every 30K and flush and change filter every 60k.
Trans flush machines hook up in line with the cooler lines. The trans pump pressure pumps fluid into the machine and a pump in the machine pumps an equal amount of new ATF. We usually run about 14 to 16 qts of fluid to completely flush a transmission. We can monitor pump pressure and the actual fluid. My fluid was black when we started but was blood red when we finished.
The filter and gasket and o-ring has to be done after the flush when changing different type of fluid. In about 10K, I am going to flush my ATF but not replace the filter. I think I'm going to flush every 30K and flush and change filter every 60k.
01-31-2005, 06:17 AM
#18
I can't believe that an independent source actually regurgitates......
the Audi corporate line "ZF passenger car automatic transmissions fitted with a continuously slipping torque converter are factory fill for life with a dedicated fluid." Yea, for the life of the tranny, which without fluid/filter changes is about 10K miles more than the warranty period! Coincidence?
01-31-2005, 06:33 AM
#19
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What about the Redline Syn ATF?
Redline stated that it will be inline with the requirements for the new Dexron 4 specifications.. Is D4 the category that we use? Mobil 1 ATF is very vague on the bottle. It states that it is compatible with all modern ATFs.
01-31-2005, 06:56 AM
#20
AudiWorld Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: So you have a mix going on right now?
You can mix equal parts of 'OE' fluid and Redline or Pennzoil MultiV-ATF or Mobil 1 and if the fluids are outright incompatible then you can see turbidity and resistance to mix.... Not completely fool proof but a good way to start...
I did the same thing before changing to Pennzoil Mutli vehicle ATF... Hope it helps.
I did the same thing before changing to Pennzoil Mutli vehicle ATF... Hope it helps.
