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Supercharger? Is it a pipe dream? I bought a book today

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Supercharger? Is it a pipe dream? I bought a book today

 
Old 02-18-2004, 02:22 PM
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Default Supercharger? Is it a pipe dream? I bought a book today

So I was looking around the internet the last few days, a lot of kits out there.

Then somebody recommended the Eaton M90 positive displacement supercharger....holy cow, do a <a href="http://search.ebaymotors.com/search/search.dll?query=eaton+supercharger&siteid=100&sor tproperty=metanewsort&categorymap=6000&from=R10&ca tegory0=6000&BasicSearch=">search for "eaton supercharger"</a> on ebay and you'll find a bunch. They came on Buicks, Fords, etc. Buy a used one for something like $250. That cuts about $2,200 out of the cost of buying one new!

Back to the subject....is a supercharger for our cars a pipe dream or something that could be done relatively easy?

Goal: Increase power 25-35% over stock with a positive displacement supercharger, which is totally doable....most say a 25-50% increase is what could be expected. And keep cost to a minimum, if you could get the supercharger for $300, maybe the whole DIY kit could cost less than $3,000.

Bought a book on supercharging, NO2, and turbocharging today....read half the thing at Border's!

So I'm going to start doing the research into what goes into a supercharger....and maybe I'll make a kit for my car!

Interesting supercharger fact for the day (for those who are ignorant): Supercharging (and turbo charging) does not change the airflow through the motor, just the air density. Higher specific density means it can burn more fuel at any given ratio, hence more power.

I've been racking my head for a week wondering why the ECU needs to be remapped, it's because the airflow doesn't change, but the density does....how ignorant can you get?
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Old 02-18-2004, 02:31 PM
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Default Pipe dream, but not because of cost or that it can't be done!

If you will recall, from past posts, the transmission is a very weak link in this equation. Without a new and more solid transmission you will be in the shop more often than not. Then you also would want to upgrade the brakes and springs, and...so on.
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Old 02-18-2004, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: Supercharger? Is it a pipe dream? I bought a book today

What forced induction does, is change the MASS flow. It does not change the volumetric flow ;-)

m(dot) = rho * V * A in a very simplified quasi-one dimensional internal flow w/out elevation change and w/out viscous effects.

You are keeping V and A the same, just changing the density, and therefore increasing mass flow (m(dot)).

Reason you need to remap the ECU is because as you increase density, the fuel required to keep the stoichiometric ratio also goes up. Basically, you need to tell the ECU that it really does need to supply more fuel, and not go into limp-home-mode because it thinks there is a problem with the MAF sensor (like I said above, you are increasing the Mass flow through the engine, which the MAF detects and outputs new voltages to the ECU, which confuses the ECU and it protests! I've seen that happen first hand on a highy worked over 2.8L 12v, engine was flowing too much for the ECU to handle with the stock fuel/spark maps and it would throw a constant-on CEL).

Also, the Eaton can be reconfigured to better fit the engine and component layout (inlets, outlets, input shafts, etc).

I told you the Eaton was cheap and plentiful!<ul><li><a href="http://automotive.eaton.com/product/engine_controls/M90.html">Eaton Product Info on the M90.</a></li></ul>
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Old 02-18-2004, 02:41 PM
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Send a spare transmission to Level 10, and have them rebuild it with "mo betta" bits ;-)
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Old 02-18-2004, 02:45 PM
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Default Already have Porsche 996/993TT brakes and H&R Suspension

Which I do think is a prerequisite for this mod.
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Old 02-18-2004, 02:46 PM
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Thanks for the heads up! Read all that stuff today...makes simple sense
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Old 02-18-2004, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: Thanks for the heads up! Read all that stuff today...makes simple sense

If you want to get waaaay more in depth on engines and such, there are a few good books available on the SAE.org bookstore. If you find something you want on there, let me know, I'm a card-carrying member of the SAE and get discounted prices ;-)
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Old 02-18-2004, 02:54 PM
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Default PES Supercharger on 2.8 (edited) V6 with Eaton M62 Supercharger

Now that would look nice under my hood...

<img src="http://www.europeancarweb.com/features/0306ec_pesa4audi03_z.jpg">
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Old 02-18-2004, 03:22 PM
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They don't have a 3.0L kit yet, just a 2.8L ;-) However, it bumps output to 295hp on the 2.8.
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Old 02-18-2004, 03:35 PM
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Default Some ideas

Adding positive pressure in the engine will change a few other things as well. The major thing is the vacuum based brake system, and any other parts that run off engine vacuum (I do not know what else runs of engine vacuum on an Audi currently). That is a simple fix, add a check valve in the main feed to the master cylinder.

On the Supras when doing a turbo engine transplant, there is an easy way: swap a stock turbo engine into the car, or a harder way: add a turbo to an existing non turbo engine. When adding a turbo(or a supercharger) to a naturally aspirated car such as a N-A supra, many Toyota, honduh and nissan car peeps add a higher flowing fuel pump and a boost dependant fuel pressure regulator. That adjusts for more fuel pressure as the engine sees more boost, so when the fuel injector(s) opens, simply more comes out for its duration. Having the higher flowing fuel pump give the fuel rail the higher pressure when needed. Where some stock fuel pumps would puke.
Another way would be to add an engine management systems, such as greddy E-manage. Using your stock ECU to run your gauges, and an aftermarket ECU to tune for a positive intake pressure might be easier than you think. Laptop control and programming, data logging, and lots of fun stuff.

I am doing an turbo engine transplant as we speak in my older supra. Lucky for me both blocks are the same, just a different generation So I will be using everything out of the later model car, except for the gauges. Too bad the A8 never had a beast of an engine in it for sale in another country. Then all you need are parts, no trickery.


Search for turbo conversions within the Japanese import society and you will find some amazing things. Those damn japs are always 20 steps ahead when it comes to making HP. Lots of that info gets over here in the hands of the equally sick horsepower nuts here in the US. How about 1200 RWHP out of a 3 liter engine. Yummy. Want that, just swap a 2jz-gte in your Audi, for fun 4 wheel burnouts, mile after mile, lol!<ul><li><a href="http://www.greddy.com/products/products.asp?catidx=8&amp;catname=Electronics&amp; prodtype=34&amp;prodtypename=e-Manage%20(piggy-back%20fuel%20computer)">E-manage info</a></li></ul>
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