A8 D2 vs A8 D3?
08-30-2011, 08:33 AM
#21
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This is a D2 I am looking into.
I hope posting links is ok. Give me some thoughts. It has some scratches in the paint that he is willing work with me on, recent kid climbed across the hood.
I hope posting links is ok. Give me some thoughts. It has some scratches in the paint that he is willing work with me on, recent kid climbed across the hood.
08-30-2011, 10:24 AM
#22
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There's very little info any of us can glean from a Craigslist ad.
Personally I wouldn't buy a private listing if I couldn't test drive it. Get a Carfax. Get an Audi dealer PPI. Look for service records. Ask a LOT of questions about history and what works and what doesn't.
My GOOD private seller experience:
When I bought my '00 S4 from an out-of-state private seller, the seller was on AudiWorld (ie known by others on the board), and I used frequent flyer miles to fly to Albany, NY for the test drive. Once there, I also took it to a local Audi dealer for a pre-purchase inspection and review of all the service records. It only had 35,000 miles on it, thus it was still under warranty. Therefore I mitigated a lot of my risk. I sold it at 128,000 miles 6 years later and it was great.
My BAD private seller experience:
When I bought my '00 D2, I bought it for $7000 from a local private seller on Craigslist. I struggled with the logistics of getting a pre-purchase inspection. I checked it out and test drove it myself. Since it was a "good deal" (i.e. cheap), I bought it. It began the cylinder 6 misfiring and compression loss issue 6 months later and despite numerous attempts to fix the problem cheaply, I sold it basically for scrap for $1500. If it was just the engine, I might have fixed it, but with so many other 'little' things not working, I cut my losses. I got burned because of MY lack of due diligence.
My GOOD small dealer experience:
I bought my '05 D3 with almost 74,000 miles back in early June. I think I found it through Lemonfree.org first which led me to the non-Audi dealer website. I ran a CarFax on it, got that dealer to take it to an Audi dealer near them for a PPI and spoke with the Audi dealer personally to review all the service history they had up through about 55,000 miles. Yes, it cost much more than $7000, but I have a lot better history and peace of mind with this vehicle. I bought it without a test drive, but the Audi PPI gave me some peace of mind. Again, I worked to mitigate my risk.
D2-D3 COMPARISON
D2 Likes:
-It reminded me of my old S4, just longer and quieter, but still sleek and sporty.
-It's a classic, beautiful design that still looks good today.
-25.8mpg measured on highway trips.
D2 dislikes
-The NAV is very outdated with no graphics, just text. Being and old system, it's not super easy to get updated map DVDs.
-Being an 11 year old car, several of the gadgets didn't work anymore: parking sensors, cruise control, rear headrests, sunroof, cigarette lighter (aka phone charger) etc.
-After 11 years, the paint finish was not as nice as I would like. Despite polishing, many of the blemishes could not be removed as the clear was too thin.
These can be all car and owner dependent, thus a thorough test drive that reviews all the gadgets, paint, smells, etc is critical.
D3 likes
-More gadgets, more up to date and being newer, so far everything works: sunshades, cruise, MMI, Nav, Blutooth, TPMS, parking sensors, air suspension, power trunk, interior lighting, exterior lighting, on and on. It is SUPERIOR in technology. You will be pressing buttons for days figuring it all out.
-I love how with VagCom I lowered the car 20mm. No new springs/shocks, etc.
-19" beautiful sport wheels (I did spend $200 to get the curb scrapes refinished)
-The smell. Everytime I get in, the leather is heavenly and it smells new despite having now 78,000 miles.
D3 dislikes
-I'm not happy with the gas mileage. Audi states 16/22. I'm doing mixed driving and getting about 16mpg measured. The computer says 17.8mpg. On a longer trip I got about 21mpg. I changed the filter and spark plugs and it hasn't noticeably changed.
SUMMARY
I LOVE the D3 as much as my beloved S4 just in a different, non-"boy racer" way. It's plenty quick enough for me, beautiful, technology packed, and luxurious yet sporty. Similar to my S4, I get complimented and questioned about it at gas stations, so I'm not the only one loving this car.
Personally, if I went with a D2, I would spend $12-15k and get a 2002-2003 S8, but get it through Bruce M. for the confidence of its condition.
Performance is not my first priority, but comfort and technology. Thus my first preference is a D3. Sure I would have loved to have a FSI 2007 with timing chain, but I wasn't willing to spend that much. The 2005 is so similar, and I'm going to do the timing belt myself to offset that cost hit.
Truth is, if you can't afford to pay for an occasional $1000 repair to a D3 OR D2 without having a heart attack, you might not need to buy one regardless of condition.
Personally I wouldn't buy a private listing if I couldn't test drive it. Get a Carfax. Get an Audi dealer PPI. Look for service records. Ask a LOT of questions about history and what works and what doesn't.
My GOOD private seller experience:
When I bought my '00 S4 from an out-of-state private seller, the seller was on AudiWorld (ie known by others on the board), and I used frequent flyer miles to fly to Albany, NY for the test drive. Once there, I also took it to a local Audi dealer for a pre-purchase inspection and review of all the service records. It only had 35,000 miles on it, thus it was still under warranty. Therefore I mitigated a lot of my risk. I sold it at 128,000 miles 6 years later and it was great.
My BAD private seller experience:
When I bought my '00 D2, I bought it for $7000 from a local private seller on Craigslist. I struggled with the logistics of getting a pre-purchase inspection. I checked it out and test drove it myself. Since it was a "good deal" (i.e. cheap), I bought it. It began the cylinder 6 misfiring and compression loss issue 6 months later and despite numerous attempts to fix the problem cheaply, I sold it basically for scrap for $1500. If it was just the engine, I might have fixed it, but with so many other 'little' things not working, I cut my losses. I got burned because of MY lack of due diligence.
My GOOD small dealer experience:
I bought my '05 D3 with almost 74,000 miles back in early June. I think I found it through Lemonfree.org first which led me to the non-Audi dealer website. I ran a CarFax on it, got that dealer to take it to an Audi dealer near them for a PPI and spoke with the Audi dealer personally to review all the service history they had up through about 55,000 miles. Yes, it cost much more than $7000, but I have a lot better history and peace of mind with this vehicle. I bought it without a test drive, but the Audi PPI gave me some peace of mind. Again, I worked to mitigate my risk.
D2-D3 COMPARISON
D2 Likes:
-It reminded me of my old S4, just longer and quieter, but still sleek and sporty.
-It's a classic, beautiful design that still looks good today.
-25.8mpg measured on highway trips.
D2 dislikes
-The NAV is very outdated with no graphics, just text. Being and old system, it's not super easy to get updated map DVDs.
-Being an 11 year old car, several of the gadgets didn't work anymore: parking sensors, cruise control, rear headrests, sunroof, cigarette lighter (aka phone charger) etc.
-After 11 years, the paint finish was not as nice as I would like. Despite polishing, many of the blemishes could not be removed as the clear was too thin.
These can be all car and owner dependent, thus a thorough test drive that reviews all the gadgets, paint, smells, etc is critical.
D3 likes
-More gadgets, more up to date and being newer, so far everything works: sunshades, cruise, MMI, Nav, Blutooth, TPMS, parking sensors, air suspension, power trunk, interior lighting, exterior lighting, on and on. It is SUPERIOR in technology. You will be pressing buttons for days figuring it all out.
-I love how with VagCom I lowered the car 20mm. No new springs/shocks, etc.
-19" beautiful sport wheels (I did spend $200 to get the curb scrapes refinished)
-The smell. Everytime I get in, the leather is heavenly and it smells new despite having now 78,000 miles.
D3 dislikes
-I'm not happy with the gas mileage. Audi states 16/22. I'm doing mixed driving and getting about 16mpg measured. The computer says 17.8mpg. On a longer trip I got about 21mpg. I changed the filter and spark plugs and it hasn't noticeably changed.
SUMMARY
I LOVE the D3 as much as my beloved S4 just in a different, non-"boy racer" way. It's plenty quick enough for me, beautiful, technology packed, and luxurious yet sporty. Similar to my S4, I get complimented and questioned about it at gas stations, so I'm not the only one loving this car.
Personally, if I went with a D2, I would spend $12-15k and get a 2002-2003 S8, but get it through Bruce M. for the confidence of its condition.
Performance is not my first priority, but comfort and technology. Thus my first preference is a D3. Sure I would have loved to have a FSI 2007 with timing chain, but I wasn't willing to spend that much. The 2005 is so similar, and I'm going to do the timing belt myself to offset that cost hit.
Truth is, if you can't afford to pay for an occasional $1000 repair to a D3 OR D2 without having a heart attack, you might not need to buy one regardless of condition.
Last edited by AudiOx; 08-31-2011 at 05:08 AM.
08-31-2011, 04:20 AM
#24
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I do like this one, just has sort high miles. I am not worried about miles, but don't wanna buy something that I have to drop a bunch into too for lack of maint.
But if the car is worth it, then it is money well spent too.
But if the car is worth it, then it is money well spent too.
08-31-2011, 05:19 AM
#25
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I do like this one, just has sort high miles. I am not worried about miles, but don't wanna buy something that I have to drop a bunch into too for lack of maint.
But if the car is worth it, then it is money well spent too.
But if the car is worth it, then it is money well spent too.
-If not (I didn't), can you turn a wrench? Do you have tools and a place to work on the car? Are you comfortable changing any or all of your own oil, filters, brake pads, rotors, spark plugs, timing belt, etc?
If you do some of the work yourself, the cost of ownership will drop quite a bit. Something to ponder.
08-31-2011, 06:25 AM
#26
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$180 oil change? What would justify it that expensive?
Yes, I do my own work on nearly everything. I can't imagine what I couldn't do save diff setup and trans rebuild and that is only because I haven't had one to do yet.
Well, with a D2, transmissions are expected to fail, would look seriously at getting an ext warranty. For a D3 the cost of car is higher, would have to rethink it, but still consider.
A friend has a 06 CDI E320 and his ext warranty covered a rattle in the sunroof, ended up being a $4000 or so repair. He didn't pay a thing.
More or less, if the D3 trans is that much more reliable over a D2 trans, then I would lean that way, and reconsider if I need to get ext warranty.
Still a gamble....
Yes, I do my own work on nearly everything. I can't imagine what I couldn't do save diff setup and trans rebuild and that is only because I haven't had one to do yet.
Well, with a D2, transmissions are expected to fail, would look seriously at getting an ext warranty. For a D3 the cost of car is higher, would have to rethink it, but still consider.
A friend has a 06 CDI E320 and his ext warranty covered a rattle in the sunroof, ended up being a $4000 or so repair. He didn't pay a thing.
More or less, if the D3 trans is that much more reliable over a D2 trans, then I would lean that way, and reconsider if I need to get ext warranty.
Still a gamble....
08-31-2011, 07:36 AM
#27
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http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-D3_A8-...All/ES1885286/
Here's an oil change kit for $80 not including tax and/or shipping.
Add in 1 hour of shop labor and you are over $180.
Realize you do it every 10kmiles, not 5kmiles. My 5k changes on my S4 and allroad were $90, so that's about right....almost twice the oil and definitely twice the labor.
The filter is under the air box so you have to remove that. Depending on how many times you've done it, it will take 1-2.5 hours for the whole thing.
I did it myself a couple of weeks ago along with new air filter, pollen filter, and spark plugs. It wasn't difficult, but I wasn't setting any speed records either; I took several hours. I'll be MUCH faster the next time.
Here's an oil change kit for $80 not including tax and/or shipping.
Add in 1 hour of shop labor and you are over $180.
Realize you do it every 10kmiles, not 5kmiles. My 5k changes on my S4 and allroad were $90, so that's about right....almost twice the oil and definitely twice the labor.
The filter is under the air box so you have to remove that. Depending on how many times you've done it, it will take 1-2.5 hours for the whole thing.
I did it myself a couple of weeks ago along with new air filter, pollen filter, and spark plugs. It wasn't difficult, but I wasn't setting any speed records either; I took several hours. I'll be MUCH faster the next time.
Last edited by AudiOx; 08-31-2011 at 07:43 AM.
08-31-2011, 08:11 AM
#28
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Does it have an oil life monitor to tell you when to change per the conditions you drive?
My drive is 80% ideal conditions (startup, gentle drive for 2 miles to interstate, get on interstate for 5 miles, then get off and do backroads for the next 35, typically driving an average of 45-50 mph including stops). We are in the north, so climate isn't excessive in heat, and cold, well, we get enough of that....
No worries on the oil changes here. I did work in an oil change shop when I was 19-20, so I got to see a lot. The worst was a 328 Ferrari, had to drop the belly pan to get to the filter. VW factory installed filters are the overall worst, more often than no you need a screwdriver thru the filter body to get it loose, they tighten it TIGHT and on a dry gasket.
My drive is 80% ideal conditions (startup, gentle drive for 2 miles to interstate, get on interstate for 5 miles, then get off and do backroads for the next 35, typically driving an average of 45-50 mph including stops). We are in the north, so climate isn't excessive in heat, and cold, well, we get enough of that....
No worries on the oil changes here. I did work in an oil change shop when I was 19-20, so I got to see a lot. The worst was a 328 Ferrari, had to drop the belly pan to get to the filter. VW factory installed filters are the overall worst, more often than no you need a screwdriver thru the filter body to get it loose, they tighten it TIGHT and on a dry gasket.
08-31-2011, 09:00 AM
#29
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FWIW, my 2006 does 24 to 26 mpg on ling trips and that's with the cruise on 80!
08-31-2011, 10:17 AM
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I wonder if fresh transmission fluid would make a difference?
I assume I can check for rich or lean conditions with VagCom, so I can look into that. The exhaust stays pretty clean. Curious.