OEM Ceramic Brakes
04-17-2016, 03:44 PM
#51
Audiworld senior member
Mister Bally it doesn't need to be a gamble/risk when other Audi owners already have tried a different approach with proven long term success. We all know that the Audi system is like the Apple system setup in a way that during the aftermarket process 5 x more money is made then at the moment the cars are sold.
Ones a guy working for Audi Germany told me honest that when you buy a complete car in spare parts from the Audi parts warehouse you pay 5 times the price of a complete new car.
Also there is a huge difference in price for 2 exactly the same parts. Price difference between one for an Audi and one for a VW Passat can be enormous.
I have worked to hard in the past to waste my money on these schemes and will always try to investigate and find an alternative solution when possible.
Like the example with the air suspension pump for my allroad. Audi says new air-pump, please pay me $1200. I investigate and find this great guy in Ireland [he is a former jet engine engineer] that miles his own piston rings for the air-pump piston. Order for $30 a new piston ring. Crawl under my Allroad and after 30 minutes, without uninstalling the air-pump, have replaced the piston ring and since that moment the pump works flawless. $1000 saved without using original Audi parts. Even better the piston ring I replaced is made from even more durable material than the ones used by Webasto.
Said that I understand and appreciate you warning/message and will be extra cautious with something like these extreme costly ceramic brakes.
But I am sure there are some alternative options out there that are maybe even better than the pads that are original installed. From what I understand Audi changed from ceramic to carbon ceramic during the last 10 years is also a prove that there is always a better solution available.
Luckily I am not under pressure and I have all the time to investigate and decide before doing anything.
@dvs dave thanks for the tip. I now understand why there is nothing available ceramic pad wise in the states. I will e-mail my Audi dealer in Holland and ask him the price for these brake pads and see if it is worthwhile to go this route. Luckily my brother is coming over here in 3 weeks :-)
This could be an almost perfect solution. Still would have loved the original Audi brake pads from the UK based e-bay seller. 230 pounds for the whole brake pad set. Can't imagine the Dutch Audi dealer will beat that price.
Yep prices here a definite shocker :-( The only downside of living in paradise ;-)
But I must say the price for the S8 with 77.000 km straight imported from Japan in meticulous state was a bargain for $35k when you indeed realize that these cars where sold in NZ for at least $240k new.
The steep prices of parts in NZ make from the Kiwi's the ultimate improvisers 8-) I have seen approaches here and solutions that are out of this world. Some amazing ingenuity has come from this place 8-)
Ones a guy working for Audi Germany told me honest that when you buy a complete car in spare parts from the Audi parts warehouse you pay 5 times the price of a complete new car.
Also there is a huge difference in price for 2 exactly the same parts. Price difference between one for an Audi and one for a VW Passat can be enormous.
I have worked to hard in the past to waste my money on these schemes and will always try to investigate and find an alternative solution when possible.
Like the example with the air suspension pump for my allroad. Audi says new air-pump, please pay me $1200. I investigate and find this great guy in Ireland [he is a former jet engine engineer] that miles his own piston rings for the air-pump piston. Order for $30 a new piston ring. Crawl under my Allroad and after 30 minutes, without uninstalling the air-pump, have replaced the piston ring and since that moment the pump works flawless. $1000 saved without using original Audi parts. Even better the piston ring I replaced is made from even more durable material than the ones used by Webasto.
Said that I understand and appreciate you warning/message and will be extra cautious with something like these extreme costly ceramic brakes.
But I am sure there are some alternative options out there that are maybe even better than the pads that are original installed. From what I understand Audi changed from ceramic to carbon ceramic during the last 10 years is also a prove that there is always a better solution available.
Luckily I am not under pressure and I have all the time to investigate and decide before doing anything.
@dvs dave thanks for the tip. I now understand why there is nothing available ceramic pad wise in the states. I will e-mail my Audi dealer in Holland and ask him the price for these brake pads and see if it is worthwhile to go this route. Luckily my brother is coming over here in 3 weeks :-)
This could be an almost perfect solution. Still would have loved the original Audi brake pads from the UK based e-bay seller. 230 pounds for the whole brake pad set. Can't imagine the Dutch Audi dealer will beat that price.
Yep prices here a definite shocker :-( The only downside of living in paradise ;-)
But I must say the price for the S8 with 77.000 km straight imported from Japan in meticulous state was a bargain for $35k when you indeed realize that these cars where sold in NZ for at least $240k new.
The steep prices of parts in NZ make from the Kiwi's the ultimate improvisers 8-) I have seen approaches here and solutions that are out of this world. Some amazing ingenuity has come from this place 8-)
04-18-2016, 10:25 AM
#52
AudiWorld Super User
Mister Bally it doesn't need to be a gamble/risk when other Audi owners already have tried a different approach with proven long term success. We all know that the Audi system is like the Apple system setup in a way that during the aftermarket process 5 x more money is made then at the moment the cars are sold.
Ones a guy working for Audi Germany told me honest that when you buy a complete car in spare parts from the Audi parts warehouse you pay 5 times the price of a complete new car.
Also there is a huge difference in price for 2 exactly the same parts. Price difference between one for an Audi and one for a VW Passat can be enormous.
I have worked to hard in the past to waste my money on these schemes and will always try to investigate and find an alternative solution when possible.
Like the example with the air suspension pump for my allroad. Audi says new air-pump, please pay me $1200. I investigate and find this great guy in Ireland [he is a former jet engine engineer] that miles his own piston rings for the air-pump piston. Order for $30 a new piston ring. Crawl under my Allroad and after 30 minutes, without uninstalling the air-pump, have replaced the piston ring and since that moment the pump works flawless. $1000 saved without using original Audi parts. Even better the piston ring I replaced is made from even more durable material than the ones used by Webasto.
Said that I understand and appreciate you warning/message and will be extra cautious with something like these extreme costly ceramic brakes.
But I am sure there are some alternative options out there that are maybe even better than the pads that are original installed. From what I understand Audi changed from ceramic to carbon ceramic during the last 10 years is also a prove that there is always a better solution available.
Luckily I am not under pressure and I have all the time to investigate and decide before doing anything.
@dvs dave thanks for the tip. I now understand why there is nothing available ceramic pad wise in the states. I will e-mail my Audi dealer in Holland and ask him the price for these brake pads and see if it is worthwhile to go this route. Luckily my brother is coming over here in 3 weeks :-)
This could be an almost perfect solution. Still would have loved the original Audi brake pads from the UK based e-bay seller. 230 pounds for the whole brake pad set. Can't imagine the Dutch Audi dealer will beat that price.
Yep prices here a definite shocker :-( The only downside of living in paradise ;-)
But I must say the price for the S8 with 77.000 km straight imported from Japan in meticulous state was a bargain for $35k when you indeed realize that these cars where sold in NZ for at least $240k new.
The steep prices of parts in NZ make from the Kiwi's the ultimate improvisers 8-) I have seen approaches here and solutions that are out of this world. Some amazing ingenuity has come from this place 8-)
Ones a guy working for Audi Germany told me honest that when you buy a complete car in spare parts from the Audi parts warehouse you pay 5 times the price of a complete new car.
Also there is a huge difference in price for 2 exactly the same parts. Price difference between one for an Audi and one for a VW Passat can be enormous.
I have worked to hard in the past to waste my money on these schemes and will always try to investigate and find an alternative solution when possible.
Like the example with the air suspension pump for my allroad. Audi says new air-pump, please pay me $1200. I investigate and find this great guy in Ireland [he is a former jet engine engineer] that miles his own piston rings for the air-pump piston. Order for $30 a new piston ring. Crawl under my Allroad and after 30 minutes, without uninstalling the air-pump, have replaced the piston ring and since that moment the pump works flawless. $1000 saved without using original Audi parts. Even better the piston ring I replaced is made from even more durable material than the ones used by Webasto.
Said that I understand and appreciate you warning/message and will be extra cautious with something like these extreme costly ceramic brakes.
But I am sure there are some alternative options out there that are maybe even better than the pads that are original installed. From what I understand Audi changed from ceramic to carbon ceramic during the last 10 years is also a prove that there is always a better solution available.
Luckily I am not under pressure and I have all the time to investigate and decide before doing anything.
@dvs dave thanks for the tip. I now understand why there is nothing available ceramic pad wise in the states. I will e-mail my Audi dealer in Holland and ask him the price for these brake pads and see if it is worthwhile to go this route. Luckily my brother is coming over here in 3 weeks :-)
This could be an almost perfect solution. Still would have loved the original Audi brake pads from the UK based e-bay seller. 230 pounds for the whole brake pad set. Can't imagine the Dutch Audi dealer will beat that price.
Yep prices here a definite shocker :-( The only downside of living in paradise ;-)
But I must say the price for the S8 with 77.000 km straight imported from Japan in meticulous state was a bargain for $35k when you indeed realize that these cars where sold in NZ for at least $240k new.
The steep prices of parts in NZ make from the Kiwi's the ultimate improvisers 8-) I have seen approaches here and solutions that are out of this world. Some amazing ingenuity has come from this place 8-)
For the air suspension compressor, you meant WABCO, not Webasto. I know a little something about them to be dangerous. When the motor completely fries, you'll need to replace the whole thing or scavenge a motor from one that had a connecting rod fail.
04-18-2016, 03:24 PM
#53
Audiworld senior member
Just trying to help you with your ceramic brake pad question as I'd hate to see you lose a rotor due to an incorrect pad.
For the air suspension compressor, you meant WABCO, not Webasto. I know a little something about them to be dangerous. When the motor completely fries, you'll need to replace the whole thing or scavenge a motor from one that had a connecting rod fail.
For the air suspension compressor, you meant WABCO, not Webasto. I know a little something about them to be dangerous. When the motor completely fries, you'll need to replace the whole thing or scavenge a motor from one that had a connecting rod fail.
Yes id it should be Wabco not Webasto the builder of the external heaters ;-)
The guy that delivered me the new piston ring is at the moment producing also a new piston in case the piston get's damaged at the piston itself.
In case the electrical motor of the pump is jammed I understand its a completely different story. But from what I understand the wear out of a piston ring is one of the common problems in the air suspension systems. The dude has already sold 5000 piston rings worldwide. His instructions are flawless and the seal ring and new bolts are perfect fit. A really nice experience for a bargain when you ask me. Since replacement the Allroad is trowing zero fault codes related to the air suspension.
The guy who sold me the Allroad was so fed up with the car. He had already replaced the 2 front airbags at the suspension and still didn't get it working properly. He was believing he still had to replace the pressure valve block, air suspension computer and pump before he would get it flawless working.
Also extremely positive on this experience was that I didn't need to take the pump of the car as you have to do with the A8-S8 pump and other cars.
I understand from other comments that the brake pads for ceramic rotors need to be free of metal and made out of a 100% organic material.
That make's sense and should avoid any damage or whatsoever at the rotor surface.
But don't worry before I put anything else in there I will confirm and test & test before risking them touching the wrong pad surface.
To come back to the first question in this topic I experience these brakes as the best I ever have felt brake wise on a car. I have to drive a dirt road, the last 30 km, before I hid my house and the braking on these loose surface's is out of this world. The ABS rarely/never come's in.
I also understand from other comments I read before that the brake pads on the ceramic brakes last longer than on conventional brake's.
Also the mountainous aria we live in and around demands a lot of braking when driving down a mountain. How more they warm up how better they brake. Almost the opposite of what I was used to with the conventional steel brakes with original pads on other Audi's
I am forever in love with them and believe this is one of the best automotive inventions in the last 25 years.
For all these reasons I would never ever replace the ceramic brakes for conventional brakes, as some already have done in the past. I understand for track use and the need of replacing pads & rotors every day it could make a big difference and could be wise to stay with steel rotors instead.
03-04-2017, 07:43 AM
#54
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Hi all
I am switching from a D3 S8 (with Carbon Ceramic Brakes) to a D4 A8 4.2. I love the carbon ceramic brakes and would like to move them onto the D4 A8 4.2.
Does anyone know if it is a straight forward procedure (just remove and reinstall the rotors, (brackets) and callipers) or there is a lot more work involve?
(The old S8 will be sold for only 2000 local dollars with the carbon brakes and solar roof! Thus I would rather move them over to the D4.)
I am switching from a D3 S8 (with Carbon Ceramic Brakes) to a D4 A8 4.2. I love the carbon ceramic brakes and would like to move them onto the D4 A8 4.2.
Does anyone know if it is a straight forward procedure (just remove and reinstall the rotors, (brackets) and callipers) or there is a lot more work involve?
(The old S8 will be sold for only 2000 local dollars with the carbon brakes and solar roof! Thus I would rather move them over to the D4.)
03-04-2017, 08:40 AM
#55
AudiWorld Senior Member
Hi all
I am switching from a D3 S8 (with Carbon Ceramic Brakes) to a D4 A8 4.2. I love the carbon ceramic brakes and would like to move them onto the D4 A8 4.2.
Does anyone know if it is a straight forward procedure (just remove and reinstall the rotors, (brackets) and callipers) or there is a lot more work involve?
(The old S8 will be sold for only 2000 local dollars with the carbon brakes and solar roof! Thus I would rather move them over to the D4.)
I am switching from a D3 S8 (with Carbon Ceramic Brakes) to a D4 A8 4.2. I love the carbon ceramic brakes and would like to move them onto the D4 A8 4.2.
Does anyone know if it is a straight forward procedure (just remove and reinstall the rotors, (brackets) and callipers) or there is a lot more work involve?
(The old S8 will be sold for only 2000 local dollars with the carbon brakes and solar roof! Thus I would rather move them over to the D4.)
If I were you at the price your going to get for the car I'd keep it and break it for parts or at the very least remove the brakes as you'll get in excess of £2000 just for the brake setup even if you cant get it to fit the D4.
Out of interest how much would it cost to ship said car to UK?
I'd buy it for the price your talking about plus shipping if it wasn't nuts.
03-04-2017, 03:04 PM
#56
AudiWorld Super User
+1
Otherwise, even if it is all bolt on, you have to take off 8 complete brakes, put back 8 complete brakes and bleed 2 systems. Neither of those jobs is fun. Definitely more than 2000 Singapore Dollars. Than you can sell those brakes for twice more money and enjoy excellent S8 cast iron brakes. On top of that you can sell the rest of that car as is.
Otherwise, even if it is all bolt on, you have to take off 8 complete brakes, put back 8 complete brakes and bleed 2 systems. Neither of those jobs is fun. Definitely more than 2000 Singapore Dollars. Than you can sell those brakes for twice more money and enjoy excellent S8 cast iron brakes. On top of that you can sell the rest of that car as is.
01-19-2021, 10:00 AM
#57
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At least on the main English language A8 boards. You might find a few posts about it with R8 or Porsche owners who track and don't like cost of ceramic parts replacements, but it isn't A8 specific. R8 front set up and D3 A8 set up are almost the same, mostly varying with D3's using a bracket to bolt the caliper to the hub area, while on R8's the caliper bolts directly to the hub area with no additional bracket.
Briefly, yes there is a software setting change. Can be done with VCDS; affects wiping function ceramic systems have for rain, and I'm not sure what else. You need all the physical parts--calipers with brackets, rotors, etc. OE fitment would also be to use the system correct splash guards, and at least front calipers probably need that changed anyway given the caliper shape and size differences. In front the hose is longest on ceramics and somewhat shorter on each of 385mm and 360mm set ups. The hose bracket and metal connecting tube at the caliper are different too. In the rear, although the caliper and electric parking brake are essentially the same; you need at least the mounting bracket and the outer (longer) hose. I don't remember if the rear rotor is thicker with ceramics (like in front) that then also requires the caliper itself. Easiest way to do it is find a used set of complete calipers and then just buy new rotors pads and hoses. But again, this is a pretty unexplored change. If you do it, be sure to use at least the baseline conventional set up used for your motor (for example the 385mm's in front for W12's and S8's).
If BTW this has to do with cost of pads being too much, there are now some aftermarket brand name pads out there for a fair amount less than the Audi ones cost. You can get replacement rotor rings too if those are badly worn, though they are still way more money than new cast rotors.
Briefly, yes there is a software setting change. Can be done with VCDS; affects wiping function ceramic systems have for rain, and I'm not sure what else. You need all the physical parts--calipers with brackets, rotors, etc. OE fitment would also be to use the system correct splash guards, and at least front calipers probably need that changed anyway given the caliper shape and size differences. In front the hose is longest on ceramics and somewhat shorter on each of 385mm and 360mm set ups. The hose bracket and metal connecting tube at the caliper are different too. In the rear, although the caliper and electric parking brake are essentially the same; you need at least the mounting bracket and the outer (longer) hose. I don't remember if the rear rotor is thicker with ceramics (like in front) that then also requires the caliper itself. Easiest way to do it is find a used set of complete calipers and then just buy new rotors pads and hoses. But again, this is a pretty unexplored change. If you do it, be sure to use at least the baseline conventional set up used for your motor (for example the 385mm's in front for W12's and S8's).
If BTW this has to do with cost of pads being too much, there are now some aftermarket brand name pads out there for a fair amount less than the Audi ones cost. You can get replacement rotor rings too if those are badly worn, though they are still way more money than new cast rotors.
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