S8ten

Hi! I have a 2009 S8 with 110k miles on it and recently found 10 small ~1/4" pins in the lower
oil pan and I'm trying to figure out where they could have come from.

The story - took the car to an indy shop to have the carbon cleaning done, the passenger side HPFP replaced, and the intake manifold replaced. When I went to pick it up they told me they had to change the oil as well because "something may have gotten in the oil". I could smell carb cleaner and a light fuel smell immediately and when I asked about it, was told it was residue that would burn off. Almost a week and plenty of revving later, I could still smell a little fuel coming into the cabin and the front of the car was vibrating excessively at around 4,000-5,000rpm at full throttle (noticeably worse in sport mode) but smoothed out up to redline. I also had noticed that it had started leaking a good amount of oil and there was a new puddle under the front of the engine for each of the previous 3 days. I just had it inspected for oil leaks in late December- early January and the only thing that was worse than very minor seepage was the oil filter housing which was fixed. I took it back to the shop and they found a loose fuel line, bad passenger side front axle, minorly leaking coolant hose, significant lower oil pan gasket leak, moderate upper oil pan gasket leak, and a moderate timing cover gasket leak. Once they took the oil pan off and found the pins they didn't go any further. The engine was running fine except for a barely noticeable misfire on cold start that went away within a few seconds, intermittent check engine light for a downstream lean code, and a slight whine under hard acceleration that sounded like a belt.

I'm new here and I'm really hoping someone can give me some insight into what could have broken because I just got it last July and I absolutely love driving it and I really want to keep it if I can!

SS_RTR

Looks like the parts of a bearing.

PaulW

Do you pictures of the actual pieces? Are they metallic or non-metallic?

dvs_dave

Yikes. Those are some rollers from a needle roller bearing. Such a bearing will usually contain a lot more than those 10 in the pan, so the bearing is still partially working. However as it’s started spitting needles, it’s just a matter of time before that bearing completely fails.

I would suggest that the most likely place that these have come from is somewhere within the timing chain/balancer shaft system. So good news is that it’s not totally failed (yet) and destroyed the engine in the process. The bad news is, it’s an engine out job to fix, and replacement parts are OEM only so expensive. For clarity, failure to address this will result in a destroyed engine in fairly short order.

There is a chance that these needles have come from somewhere else within the engine that’s easier to fix, but you’d need to study a parts diagram to identify where all the needle roller bearings are and check the condition of each one.

MP4.2+6.0

They do look like part of a roller bearing. Are they still in the same general position in the picture as how they were first found? They are clustered together there in the picture, and at least you could see how that relateds to components above if their position wasn't disturbed. For example, the chain drive system for the cams should be in the back of the motor. the internal drive for the auxiliaries like P/S and A/C along the USA driver's side (with takeoff toward the back??) , and so on.

I don't know the S8 specifics, but is the round object on the left side of picture the drain plug? Hole in back right with the three smaller screw holes seems to be where sensor would be.

Also, did anyone check to see if these pieces are magnetic? They seem too small and do seem like roller bearing parts. but sometimes there are magnetic pick up components intentionally placed at the bottom of pans. They are in the D3 transmission pan for example, though bigger scale.

Unfortunately, yes the roller bearings are probably an immediate engine tear down. From prior posts, honestly to get the far upper seal done right, motor also has to be pulled (anyway) since the part/casting forms the lower half of the whole crank and related main bearing support. Seems to be a recurring S8 specific issue from some prior posts on it.

Giovanni Giovino 6.0+6.0TT

As asked by others, can we get a pic of the pins out of the pan and clean, maybe with a size reference.
Check out the pic below, could be rocker arm pins.
Also see self study PDF link

http://www.vaglinks.com/vaglinks_com...fsi_engine.pdf



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Giovanni Giovino 6.0+6.0TT

Is it possible that the pins came from the HPFP roller ?

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Giovanni Giovino 6.0+6.0TT

Any thoughts, anyone ?

S8ten

Thank you all for the replies! I don't have a better picture of the pins right now but they are metallic. I don't know if they're magnetic or not. The service training manual is pretty dam nice and looking through it I also saw the HPFP as a possibility.

It seems like they're small enough pins that they'd have to be either the HPFP or a rocker bearing, unless there's something in the timing that has a bearing that small? Also with hard driving, if it was from the timing system wouldn't the pins have gotten caught in the chains?

I'm in Madison, WI and Audi wants $1,200 just to pull the valve covers and look at it. Is that normal? Seems a bit expensive to me.

MP4.2+6.0

Unlike most other possibles, HPFP's are basically right there on top of the valve covers instead of internal to motor. I have removed an HPFP from a Golf R, but the early ones were driven by a solid tappet until they converted to a bearing design...for longevity. You couldn't get at all the little bits in the cam area below, but it would be obvious if the drive side of a pump was messed up.

Since you had HPFP replaced, obviously sort of a flag. Think through who you would want to remove them for inspection. If it was shop that did earlier work, I would be there physically myself to see the parts pulled--to avoid any issues later of what happened when and what exactly was found.

If no one tampered with position of those pins, I still suspect where they are in the pan is suggesting general place they started from. You would look at oil passages/galleries above where they landed and then starting point parts with those sorts of bearing shells.

Not sure on valve cover removal. They are a tight fit in there at back, like my W12 ones were. Dealer did mine at end of warranty. And...I think HPFP's will come off as part of that.