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Just change the oil and filter, drive it for 500 KM. Then change everything again. You are not going to break anything that isn't already broken, don't think too hard about this. You are going to reduce the pressure drop across the filter by about 10X.....I bet it will all work its way out.
Yesterday I received the right PCV from JMHMotorsports. Top service for JMH getting the part to me in less than a week from the other side of the world.
I didn't fully trust what was going on with the V10s oil system after I had pulled out that extremely sludged up oil filter and closed everything back up again without a new oil filter to run it idle to further diagnose.
Straight on I could hear a bit more noise coming from the cam lifters/valve train top of the engine. Immediate thought there must be an oil pressure issue and the oil filter I had pulled out may be part of keeping the system working properly. But also immediately thought I might have dislodged some heavy sludge when I pulled the oil filter. FYI before I ran the car idle I cleaned out the filter house.
Seen the valve train noises didn't disappear and also a little higher rpm didn't have any effect of the valve train lubrication I was in for some heart palpation's.
What happened for the first time was that the red oil pressure warning light came on.
Got all sorts of flashes through my mind about blocked oil pan pickup screens and the inevitable starve to dead trap.
So immediate pulled the oil pan and there it was the oil pickup screen completely clogged up.
Probably only 2-3% was open.
with a strong 2000 lumen torch behind the screen with only a small bit of light passing through at the bottom of the image.
My first feeling was one of relieve to understand now what was going on and creating the low oil pressure warning and the valve train noises and earlier problems with stalling engine. The chain tensioner don't have enough pressure to keep the chains under tension creating and engine running like a bag of potatoes completely out of ignition timing what explains the Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced) & Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced).
It's unbelievable car makers haven't yet invented a small access port for cleaning out the oil uptake screens. There is one airplane engine company who made an engine with a separate oil screen access door. In Lycoming engines you simply remove a seventeen hex open the access and slide out the screen. Anyway I understand when the car receives the right service interval for oil and filter this shouldn't clog up but what I found stuck to the screen from both sides wasn't only carbon or sludge but everything like a soft glue rubbery material. Not sure if this also comes from sealer used during the life of the engine. Or maybe someone lost a couple of oil bottle cap rings into the engine and they fully disintegrated and recollected at the oil intake screen?
I let it sit overnight in diesel and cleaned most with a plastic brush and some of the rubbery goo that had gotten stuck inside the screen I picked out with a dentist pick.
The perfect stuff to get old seal RTV silicone from the edges between engine and oil pan. But you have to wear a respiratory face mask to protect for the fumes. Brush it on with a plastic brush, repeat 3 times and let it soak for couple of minutes and then it's very easily to brush of with the soft copper brush with gentle brushing.
After I cleaned everything but not ready to glue back the oil pan I placed a temporarily plastic screen to protect against rain splashing.
the 2 guide studs I made to make the positioning of the oil pan a breeze.
Well done! Judging by that mess, I think that really was the original filter from the factory! I can't believe their maintenance practices over there are so bad, that is begging to kill a car. Seriously, that car couldn't have taken much more of that. I would guess your new filter improved flow rate and that dislodged the crud which then clogged the screen. Check your oil filter and see if that has been clogged up at all, it might need a change. Also, don't be surprised if that screen gets gunked up one more time, you might still have some sludge that will be dislodged, so next time you drain the oil, plan on pulling the pan to check.
Yes that's my biggest fear that the screen may get clogged up ones again. Now serious start to doubt I better give it an Audi engine flush treatment. I found that Audi uses the Liqui Moly products.
Haven't yet refilled the engine with new oil. Still waiting on the oil delivery. 2 oil filters and 3 sump plug seal washers and special loctite RTV arrived today.
Does anyone know if there is a way to read the oil pressure with my Rosstech cable. When looking around in all options couldn't find a pressure reading.
Yes exactly Paul I was thinking on changing from Castrol Full synthetic 5W-30 to 0W-40. Was always a bit wary about using such a thin oil but now after seeing the sludge that can form inside a engine and the risks of oil to thick passing the narrowed passages I rethink that opinion and might indeed best used the thinnest oil available. Luckily the engine doesn't show any leaks besides the minor one around the PCV o-ring and it maybe could be safe to switch back to such a thin oil.
IYou sure I can't do the flush and first oil warming & circulating without the filter installed? I am not going to drive it just follow the whole procedure from the ramp in idle.
Yes I imagine the pressure drop must be huge with such a clogged up filter. Especially knowing the V10 engine is already constructed with an extreme low oil pressure in the system it might even create more problems then with conventional engines.
Yes I not put the old oil back in the engine to drive but just to cycle a few times more the whole process of letting it idle warm when positioned on the ramps and then repeat the whole flushing process. I imagine the more often I flush the system the more of the gunk will come out before bringing it back onto the streets.
Yep cost of oil and filter is no problem as long it isn't unnecessary wasted. I imagine in this case I can't do enough to get it as clean as possible.
Thanks a lot for your valuable feedback and a good lesson for me to never again assume anything about the state of existing filters.
1. There is no 5w30 oil that meets VW 502 standards.
2. Seafoam has nothing to do with fixing oil sludge, it's in IMF AKA carbon cleaner. I've been doing BG fuel/induction service every 10k miles since I had an IMF decarbon done with good results.
3. I did an oil system flush on a 2001 A6 and ran it 18 years thereafter.
1. There is no 5w30 oil that meets VW 502 standards.
2. Seafoam has nothing to do with fixing oil sludge, it's in IMF AKA carbon cleaner. I've been doing BG fuel/induction service every 10k miles since I had an IMF decarbon done with good results.
3. I did an oil system flush on a 2001 A6 and ran it 18 years thereafter.
Seafoam can be used in three ways, crankcase is one of them: How To Use Sea Foam: Three Ways To A Cleaner Fuel System
Now I know Audi uses the Liqui Moly Engine Flush I am happy to do that instead when I fill in the first new flush oil.
I am not planning to use Seafoam but instead ordered
For cleaning my inlet manifold ports from carbon I've bought the walnut shells and still try to get my hands on the special inlet port adapter, made by one of our college's, to do it without the use of any chemicals.
This is the Audi oil pan sealer D176501A1
Loctite SI5970
all the 13 liter oil that came from the engine I let sit for 6 days in my workshop before I carefully pored over the oil into my used oil barrel storage and kept the small amount on the bottom to flush with brake cleaner until I left with the few solid parts that had end up into the oil pan.
Everything that came out in the end. Personally think this isn't to much or alarming as this is what I see all the time coming from engines when checking the solid parts that end up on the bottom of an oil pan.
Some tiny green and black solid parts that I can't define.
My workshop digital microscope setup to check the metal pieces. Only the one small and narrow dark chip on the right bottom is magnetic.
A normal pen for size reference.
A few more bullet points I discovered during the last days when reading & preparing install instructions to place back the oil pan:
Oil pressure for the V10, idle min. 1.5 bar, at 2000 rpm min. 3.5 bar.
Notes: "by removing the oil filter element a valve is opened that allows the oil in the filter housing to flow automatically back into the crankcase"
From reading this last point this may explain why the oil pressure immediately fell after I had pulled the filter and closed the housing to let it run idle for further diagnose.
The filter has a little *** on the bottom with a o-ring that fills up a small oil return hole in the bottom of the oil housing. When this hole is open oil that comes up via the center pipe in the oil housing is falling straight back into the sump instead of flowing into the side hole that goes into the valve train.
It may be the main trigger that let the low oil pressure warning light come up. The fully clogged up uptake screen may have not been the reason for the oil warning but was definitely starving the engine of a healthy amount of lubrication.
Another mention I stumbled upon when reading about about low oil pressure is related to the oil check valve and spray nozzle:
"If irregular valve noise occurs repeatedly during short journeys and disappears after extended driving, the oil check valve must be replaced"
I have now threated the damaged edges of the oil pan with the German Fertan rust converter and after 48 hours drying at min 18 degrees Celsius it's now ready to go back onto the bottom of the engine.
Still in search for the right torque numbers for the oil uptake screen and pipe that connects onto the oil pump.
10-18-2018, 05:27 AM
