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I'm new here, I have problem with my transmission, it's in safe mood now...
I checked the transmission by computer and this is the result:
The mechanic said that have to change that sensor calls "output spend sensor" but have to Change the transmission oil and their is 50% that might work or I have to change the whole transmission.
New sensor makes sense to me. The fluid change will give them an opportunity to get eyes on the fluid, and should be done regardless if it hasn't been before. Low fluid level can also cause a number of problems, so checking for a leak is also suggested. Any odd behavior before it went into limp mode?
Output speed sensor is now in the Mechatronics (valve) body IIRC, so you have to drop tranny pan to get to it. Used to be on outside of case on the 5 speed. Get the ZF parts diagram if you want to run down definitively. Having had obscure wiring issues with speed sensor on 5 speed (when it had its own wire separate from the harness because of then separate location), a failure will definitely kick the tranny to SAFE mode.
6 speed is generally well built and regarded, so I would not rebuild unless really necessary. Pulling pan to get at Mechatronics will allow you to do filter and also the seal between the valve body and tranny case--which distorted on mine actually. If like mine, you will find very little crap in the pan actually--different than a lot of older trannies. Also to rebuild, of course you have to remove and replace tranny, which is both real money for labor, and itself likely to break or compromise other parts.
Internal tranny parts can be obtained from a ZF distributor for a fair amount less than an Audi dealer too, so I would go that route. Except maybe on pan gasket unless you really double check what a ZF (or indy) place gives you. The BMW and others sold in higher volume for 6 speed don't use same bolt hole spacing, as I found out...
New sensor makes sense to me. The fluid change will give them an opportunity to get eyes on the fluid, and should be done regardless if it hasn't been before. Low fluid level can also cause a number of problems, so checking for a leak is also suggested. Any odd behavior before it went into limp mode?
Thanks for your help, I'll check for any sign of leaking...
Output speed sensor is now in the Mechatronics (valve) body IIRC, so you have to drop tranny pan to get to it. Used to be on outside of case on the 5 speed. Get the ZF parts diagram if you want to run down definitively. Having had obscure wiring issues with speed sensor on 5 speed (when it had its own wire separate from the harness because of then separate location), a failure will definitely kick the tranny to SAFE mode.
6 speed is generally well built and regarded, so I would not rebuild unless really necessary. Pulling pan to get at Mechatronics will allow you to do filter and also the seal between the valve body and tranny case--which distorted on mine actually. If like mine, you will find very little crap in the pan actually--different than a lot of older trannies. Also to rebuild, of course you have to remove and replace tranny, which is both real money for labor, and itself likely to break or compromise other parts.
Internal tranny parts can be obtained from a ZF distributor for a fair amount less than an Audi dealer too, so I would go that route. Except maybe on pan gasket unless you really double check what a ZF (or indy) place gives you. The BMW and others sold in higher volume for 6 speed don't use same bolt hole spacing, as I found out...
Thanks for heads up...
I'll check the valve body as you suggest, hopefully that solve this problem...
About the oil, any suggestions for good suppliers that can provide the Oil+Filter"Strainer"+Gasket in lowest price possible?
Believe me or not, The dealer will cost me fortune for that!
I'll check the valve body as you suggest, hopefully that solve this problem...
About the oil, any suggestions for good suppliers that can provide the Oil+Filter"Strainer"+Gasket in lowest price possible?
Believe me or not, The dealer will cost me fortune for that!
Question: Are you really going to do this yourself? While I have done it, I would rate the job as right at the top of complexity for a DIY'er. Just about a full 10 out of 10. Tranny fluid only change would be a 4ish on my ruler (no JV leagues on my scale), and add a point for pan pull, and 2 more for S8's and W12's where front exhaust also comes off. And one mistake or drop on the valve body and you have a worthless $2500 piece of scrap. I ask because if you aren't DIY'ing, most mechanics will want to source their own parts and fluids, esp. with any warranty provided. I would not just turn this over to a drain and go or shade tree type guy either who had not been inside trannies and pulled valve bodies, hopefully ZF's. And having done both 5 and 6 speeds, this is incrementally more fragile and exacting than the preceding generation. Given you have a code for the output speed sensor specifically, getting to that is not just a fluid and filter change--it happens along the way, but pulling body and working on it is exacting.
Here is a techno write up. http://www.ukrtrans.biz/files/2010/0...ansmission.pdf There are others that include ZF parts diagrams and such, but this one has good pictures. Go right about to middle of it and find a page titled "Mechatronics main components. I also put a screen shot below. Shows you where speed sensor is. IIRC, that is on the upper side of the valve body as you look at it from underneath, so it has to come out. The exacting parts of that are the combo of undoing the linkage (AND especially getting it back together again) and any separation of the TCU (the black plastic stuff--yes those are the electronics swimming in the fluid area) and the oh so fragile plastics around it and the wiring harness. To do sensor, I think it may be at extreme "end" of the TCU plastic case in sort of a "tail" IIRC. And then need to be super careful not to snap anything off. I had to get into that R&R of the TCU to change out the solenoids that I wanted to service also. Used to be about $500 for the set of those at jobber cost BTW.
Once you answer who is doing job, if it is really you I can give you a few more pointers on sourcing for U.S. If elsewhere, you will need to work thru the ZF type info online. For fluid, it's ZF6 lifeguard if you want to go "branded" on a 4.2. (or dealer). One of the other guys who posts can explain the technical spec equivalency to lower priced store shelf ones. But again, in a shop environment, don't just show up with a car and a bunch of parts and fluid w/ out earlier discussions--as well as likely some confirming diagnostics they would want to do.
Interesting document. A few pages before the picture MP posted above there is another picture that has the sensors labeled the opposite way around. Either way it looks like the mechatronics E-module has to be replaced. Doesn't look fun.
Question: Are you really going to do this yourself? While I have done it, I would rate the job as right at the top of complexity for a DIY'er. Just about a full 10 out of 10. Tranny fluid only change would be a 4ish on my ruler (no JV leagues on my scale), and add a point for pan pull, and 2 more for S8's and W12's where front exhaust also comes off. And one mistake or drop on the valve body and you have a worthless $2500 piece of scrap. I ask because if you aren't DIY'ing, most mechanics will want to source their own parts and fluids, esp. with any warranty provided. I would not just turn this over to a drain and go or shade tree type guy either who had not been inside trannies and pulled valve bodies, hopefully ZF's. And having done both 5 and 6 speeds, this is incrementally more fragile and exacting than the preceding generation. Given you have a code for the output speed sensor specifically, getting to that is not just a fluid and filter change--it happens along the way, but pulling body and working on it is exacting.
Here is a techno write up. http://www.ukrtrans.biz/files/2010/0...ansmission.pdf There are others that include ZF parts diagrams and such, but this one has good pictures. Go right about to middle of it and find a page titled "Mechatronics main components. I also put a screen shot below. Shows you where speed sensor is. IIRC, that is on the upper side of the valve body as you look at it from underneath, so it has to come out. The exacting parts of that are the combo of undoing the linkage (AND especially getting it back together again) and any separation of the TCU (the black plastic stuff--yes those are the electronics swimming in the fluid area) and the oh so fragile plastics around it and the wiring harness. To do sensor, I think it may be at extreme "end" of the TCU plastic case in sort of a "tail" IIRC. And then need to be super careful not to snap anything off. I had to get into that R&R of the TCU to change out the solenoids that I wanted to service also. Used to be about $500 for the set of those at jobber cost BTW.
Once you answer who is doing job, if it is really you I can give you a few more pointers on sourcing for U.S. If elsewhere, you will need to work thru the ZF type info online. For fluid, it's ZF6 lifeguard if you want to go "branded" on a 4.2. (or dealer). One of the other guys who posts can explain the technical spec equivalency to lower priced store shelf ones. But again, in a shop environment, don't just show up with a car and a bunch of parts and fluid w/ out earlier discussions--as well as likely some confirming diagnostics they would want to do.
Problem is I can do it by my self, I don't have much experience and I never done it before.
Do you know someone can do it for me so I can send the whole unit to him?
Or if it's not much trouble to you, can you do it? I find you much more expertise than I'm!
About the Oil, can you confirm the right one for my car transmission?
one of the dealer said the Lifeguard8 is the one for w12 6.0 transmission!
Problem is I can do it by my self, I don't have much experience and I never done it before.
Do you know someone can do it for me so I can send the whole unit to him?
Or if it's not much trouble to you, can you do it? I find you much more expertise than I'm!
About the Oil, can you confirm the right one for my car transmission?
one of the dealer said the Lifeguard8 is the one for w12 6.0 transmission!
Back up some steps, plus some answers/guidance:
1. You should be telling folks where you are located. Important for answers.
2. Pretty clear you aren't in USA (where I am) just from the speedo picture in the earlier post--in km. Hence even less of an idea on shop. What I suggest you do locally is find a shop/garage/specialist who works on ZF transmissions. Use your country level ZF site, web, etc. to locate. Similar ZF trannies are used in BMW's, Jags, Volvo's, longitudinal motor VW's, and even some lesser known specific models from Ford, Nissan and Hyundai. So, plenty of knowledge out there, and hopefully independent knowledgable shops. For the one used in A8, look to counterpart vehicles with similar size--Jag XJ8, larger BMW V8's, etc. Guy I used for my 5 speed ZF was "Mike's Transmission," so you can't go just by name either or expect it always to be called stereotypes like "Hans Dieter ZF Specialist Transmission Workshop."
3. OE W12 oil, it should still be available from Audi dealer. In USA via a discounted dealer it is priced similarly to LifeGuard 8; at retail it is more. In ZF speak it was the no longer available LifeGuard 6+. ZF superseded it with LG 8, but Audi kept theirs, at least as of a year or two ago. Neither is the real supplier. Search board for more info on other possible compatibility at spec. level. If you intend to do a multi cycle flush anyway, you could go to ZF 8 from what their documentation suggests.
4. Maybe most important, what are the underlying symptoms? I am not familiar with the test equipment pictured, and a little concerned it may not show all codes. It seems like it may be reading the sensor issue correctly, and from whole gearshift display apparently lit up, it looks like it is in "SAFE" mode. That would match a sensor error like this. Driving wise it would feel like it is in a single higher gear and only goes to something like 4000RPM max. True for yours?
1. You should be telling folks where you are located. Important for answers.
2. Pretty clear you aren't in USA (where I am) just from the speedo picture in the earlier post--in km. Hence even less of an idea on shop. What I suggest you do locally is find a shop/garage/specialist who works on ZF transmissions. Use your country level ZF site, web, etc. to locate. Similar ZF trannies are used in BMW's, Jags, Volvo's, longitudinal motor VW's, and even some lesser known specific models from Ford, Nissan and Hyundai. So, plenty of knowledge out there, and hopefully independent knowledgable shops. For the one used in A8, look to counterpart vehicles with similar size--Jag XJ8, larger BMW V8's, etc. Guy I used for my 5 speed ZF was "Mike's Transmission," so you can't go just by name either or expect it always to be called stereotypes like "Hans Dieter ZF Specialist Transmission Workshop."
3. OE W12 oil, it should still be available from Audi dealer. In USA via a discounted dealer it is priced similarly to LifeGuard 8; at retail it is more. In ZF speak it was the no longer available LifeGuard 6+. ZF superseded it with LG 8, but Audi kept theirs, at least as of a year or two ago. Neither is the real supplier. Search board for more info on other possible compatibility at spec. level. If you intend to do a multi cycle flush anyway, you could go to ZF 8 from what their documentation suggests.
4. Maybe most important, what are the underlying symptoms? I am not familiar with the test equipment pictured, and a little concerned it may not show all codes. It seems like it may be reading the sensor issue correctly, and from whole gearshift display apparently lit up, it looks like it is in "SAFE" mode. That would match a sensor error like this. Driving wise it would feel like it is in a single higher gear and only goes to something like 4000RPM max. True for yours?
Yes, I'm not in USA.
But if there anyone you recommend his work I will send the whole unit, no problem.
Yes, it's in single higher gear, It's like 2000rpm=50kph and I didn't drive over that limit just for Cautious.
If I put it in parking position and try to give little more gas, it just limited to 4000rpm, does that mean something? Is that because the Safe-Mode state in the transmission?
11-11-2016, 04:49 AM
Transmission Problem!
