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Love your approach, sounds incredible. Can't wait to hear/see your results!👍
I wonder how much you'd be leaving on the table without the stage 3 tune... Prune the build back a little and just go to stage 2?
Good luck!
I had them quote a Stage 2 build which went with new stock turbos and an APR Stage 2 tune. The cost difference was actually minimal. You can see from the quote that most of the tuning cost is in the labor vs the flash. The APR Stage 2 tune is similar in cost (no real labor involved but the license is the expense). My goal for this build prioritizes reliability just as much as performance so the Stage 2 option contains most of the same parts to ensure that. You could probably carve out the intakes for Stage 2 but the stock turbos cost about as much as the custom hybrids (I wasn't going to keep my existing turbos if I went Stage 2).
The APR Stage 2 tune is similar in cost (no real labor involved but the license is the expense). My goal for this build prioritizes reliability just as much as performance so the Stage 2 option contains most of the same parts to ensure that. You could probably carve out the intakes for Stage 2 but the stock turbos cost about as much as the custom hybrids (I wasn't going to keep my existing turbos if I went Stage 2).
Excellent plan! Now you've got me thinking that, if or when my turbo's blow, if they don't do any additional engine damage i could have a variation of this done.
Closing the loop on the turbo issue for my recently purchased '14 S8 w/APR S1 tune still sitting at 48K miles. Another purpose of this post is provide some data to assist other D4 S8 owners who may be trying to decide whether to prevent or not prevent TSB 2044640.
I did have my local Audi Indy mechanic perform a peace of mind (aka establish a baseline) procedure: - Oil flush with their 'shop' liquimoly chems. 504 spec (Total Quartz INEO) refill - Preventative maintenance to stave off TSB 2044640 by replacing the oil screen and check valve with latest Audi versions - Inspect the earlier Audi dealership work to replace the oil separator valve (300 miles and 1 owner ago) - Inspect turbos - Pull some coils/plugs and inspect - Check other things: ribbed V belt, air filter, sway bars, etc.
Shop results: - Oil was super black (dirty yet fresh). One mechanic said that is pretty normal and another who did the work said it was darker than usual and viscosity was thinner which is typical result of the flush. I checked out a sample, should have brought it home for better post mortem. - One of the gaskets used for oil separator replace was pinched and I recall the mechanic said there was a small leak from it. He said he cleaned this up, but I would like to ask more q's. Pic of pinch attached. - Oil / coolant lines all good. - Oil screen was pretty clean, but there is a dark spot in the center that looks like blockage. Also a bunch of small debris on upstream side. Mechanic said the area around the screen was fairly clean and no oil sludge. Replaced check valve looks good and operates well. - Turbos inspection analysis by the mechanic was very positive: 'no excessive or unusual shaft play, no abnormal oil coatings, blades all OK / no damage'. Looking at the one pic they took, I concur with the exception of passenger turbo scoring mark I see at 7 o'clock. - All other checked items - high marks. Did find that the oil filter housing drain plug was stripped. So next oil change will replace so can start with my own oil changes.
My final thoughts are that this was an expensive health check that I felt mandatory for this new owner to establish a baseline. Car had good maintenance records, all recalls done and all service work completed on correct intervals. However this thread has made clear to me that this oil starvation issue is prevalent and hits cars with excellent service records, tune or no tune. Having an experienced mechanic assess the turbos and give them a pass was a big relief. That all said, if I had x-ray vision and could have looked at the turbos, oil screen and check valve condition on this particular S8, I probably would have put the money towards next family vacation instead. But alas I don't have x-ray vision even though I ordered the glasses from the back of popular mechanics (or was it Mad magazine) back in the day.
Last edited by NorthSD S8; 06-17-2019 at 11:06 PM.
Reason: erroneous CR/LFs
Closing the loop on the turbo issue for my recently purchased '14 S8 w/APR S1 tune still sitting at 48K miles. Another purpose of this post is provide some data to assist other D4 S8 owners who may be trying to decide whether to prevent or not prevent TSB 2044640.
I did have my local Audi Indy mechanic perform a peace of mind (aka establish a baseline) procedure: - Oil flush with their 'shop' liquimoly chems. 504 spec (Total Quartz INEO) refill - Preventative maintenance to stave off TSB 2044640 by replacing the oil screen and check valve with latest Audi versions - Inspect the earlier Audi dealership work to replace the oil separator valve (300 miles and 1 owner ago) - Inspect turbos - Pull some coils/plugs and inspect - Check other things: ribbed V belt, air filter, sway bars, etc.
Shop results: - Oil was super black (dirty yet fresh). One mechanic said that is pretty normal and another who did the work said it was darker than usual and viscosity was thinner which is typical result of the flush. I checked out a sample, should have brought it home for better post mortem. - One of the gaskets used for oil separator replace was pinched and I recall the mechanic said there was a small leak from it. He said he cleaned this up, but I would like to ask more q's. Pic of pinch attached. - Oil / coolant lines all good. - Oil screen was pretty clean, but there is a dark spot in the center that looks like blockage. Also a bunch of small debris on upstream side. Mechanic said the area around the screen was fairly clean and no oil sludge. Replaced check valve looks good and operates well. - Turbos inspection analysis by the mechanic was very positive: 'no excessive or unusual shaft play, no abnormal oil coatings, blades all OK / no damage'. Looking at the one pic they took, I concur with the exception of passenger turbo scoring mark I see at 7 o'clock. - All other checked items - high marks. Did find that the oil filter housing drain plug was stripped. So next oil change will replace so can start with my own oil changes.
My final thoughts are that this was an expensive health check that I felt mandatory for this new owner to establish a baseline. Car had good maintenance records, all recalls done and all service work completed on correct intervals. However this thread has made clear to me that this oil starvation issue is prevalent and hits cars with excellent service records, tune or no tune. Having an experienced mechanic assess the turbos and give them a pass was a big relief. That all said, if I had x-ray vision and could have looked at the turbos, oil screen and check valve condition on this particular S8, I probably would have put the money towards next family vacation instead. But alas I don't have x-ray vision even though I ordered the glasses from the back of popular mechanics (or was it Mad magazine) back in the day.
Thank you for an excellent recap - I too am considering this preventive procedure after my CPO expires in Nov of this year.
I have two quick questions. Will you be changing the thinned oil in a few thousand miles, or just wait for your next regular interval?
Second, did you ask or find out what the debris is on the screen and where it came from?
And yes, Mad magazine, PM and many others carried those ads... I remember them as a kid as well along with Beanie Copter caps.
If you are in the market for some XRay Spex, you can still buy them today!!
Closing the loop on the turbo issue for my recently purchased '14 S8 w/APR S1 tune still sitting at 48K miles. Another purpose of this post is provide some data to assist other D4 S8 owners who may be trying to decide whether to prevent or not prevent TSB 2044640.
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Great writeup! Thanks for sharing. It is worth the peace of mind. I had to do it myself as well and don't regret it. Now I am able to enjoy the car without fear of impending doom. Well, there may still be doom at some point but shouldn't be impending now that oil screen & check valve are new. Your oil screen looks super clean. Mine definitely had more overall debris at 78,000 and I didn't realize how much until I cleaned it with degreaser. Anyway, best of luck with her!
I spoke to my shop foreman who is an Audi master mechanic.
He said that if the turbo screen is not clean or if turbos are scored due to poor lubrication, it could show in lower than spec turbo boost specs along with abnormal oil pressure.
So one way to diagnose if you have a clogged screen is to check turbo boost pressure along with oil pressure numbers.
That's what he did with my car instead of diving in to look at the screen. I asked him to change the screen and check valve at my expense (They quoted me $3K) but he said it was not necessary based upon checking boost and oil pressure numbers.
So one way to diagnose if you have a clogged screen is to check turbo boost pressure along with oil pressure numbers.
Assuming I could pull those numbers from VCDS or similar has anyone found where acceptable ranges are published? The 4.0T self study guide mentions:
"The low pressure level is at a relative pressure of approximately 29.0 psi (2 bar). The high pressure level is controlled to a value of approximately 65.3 psi (4.5 bar). The pressure relief valve in the pump opens at approximately 159.5 psi (11 bar)."
I have two quick questions. Will you be changing the thinned oil in a few thousand miles, or just wait for your next regular interval? Second, did you ask or find out what the debris is on the screen and where it came from?
Q1: I do plan to change oil every 3-4K miles. Note that the thinned oil was the result of the flush. Current oil in the car is amber clean 504 spec.
Q2: I looked harder today and the solid debris chunks look to be small metal shavings. The oil residue from the gaskets and strainer is fine gritty.
If I can conjure up the discipline, I would like to analyze samples after each oil change and check or measure if the grit and black color improve. The records show that oil changes were performed each 10K service interval. Perhaps halving the time can lead to cleaner oil.
TinyElviss - I am going to order X-Ray Spex right now! Thanks for the blast to the past.
spdemon91 - Thank you and I agree wholeheartedly that I can now actual drive without fear, or lessened fear of the unknown.
I am also interested in keeping an eye on oil pressure and boost. Are there any suggestions on convenient and accurate real time gauges?
Last edited by NorthSD S8; 06-18-2019 at 06:57 PM.
Q1: I do plan to change oil every 3-4K miles. Note that the thinned oil was the result of the flush. Current oil in the car is amber clean 504 spec.
Q2: I looked harder today and the solid debris chunks look to be small metal shavings. The oil residue from the gaskets and strainer is fine gritty.
If I can conjure up the discipline, I would like to analyze samples after each oil change and check or measure if the grit and black color improve. The records show that oil changes were performed each 10K service interval. Perhaps halving the time can lead to cleaner oil.
TinyElviss - I am going to order X-Ray Spex right now! Thanks for the blast to the past.
spdemon91 - Thank you and I agree wholeheartedly that I can now actual drive without fear, or lessened fear of the unknown.
I am also interested in keeping an eye on oil pressure and boost. Are there any suggestions on convenient and accurate real time gauges?
there are plenty of cheap bluetooth OBDII readers that will pair with your phone.
bigger issue is selecting the correct sensor values to watch, these cars have so many sensors.. can you say data overload.
another thing is picking an app on your phone which is easy to use and can log data. may be a good idea to jot down numbers regularly to have a running history of boost vs. oil pressure...
numbers are going to be somewhat useless if you have no reference point or trends to pick up on. just my $0.02
When was the extended warranty for the turbos? I have 102k miles on my 2013 Audi A8L 4.0T, and my driver side turbo went out while traveling to South Carolina last weekend
06-06-2019, 07:39 AM
