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4.0TT Turbo Failure Thread - S6 S7 RS7 A8 S8

A8 / S8 (D4 Platform) Discussion Discussion Forum for the D4 Audi A8 Produced from 2010-2017 Audi S8 produced from 2012-2017
View Poll Results: 4.0TT Have your turbos blown yet?
2013 - NO
31
26.27%
2013 - YES
13
11.02%
2014 - NO
15
12.71%
2014 - YES
7
5.93%
2015 - NO
22
18.64%
2015 - YES
3
2.54%
2016 - NO
14
11.86%
2016 - YES
2
1.69%
2017 - NO
8
6.78%
2017 - YES
3
2.54%
Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll

4.0TT Turbo Failure Thread - S6 S7 RS7 A8 S8

 
Old 02-10-2019, 08:26 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Bja72774 View Post
Well my car is currently at the dealer. 2013 S6 with 63000 miles on it. All services completed by the dealer and at recommended intervals. Both turbos are blown. Received a quote of about 13K to repair the turbos and the breather assembly repair, Im assuming thats the oil separator issue. I have contacted Audi of America to see if they can do anything. If they cant then I have to see which route to go.
If Audi leaves you with the total bill, an independant reapir shop can do a lot cheaper with the SRM CHRA: 4.0TFSI RS7 CHRA Turbo Upgrade

If you live near an independant reapir shop that has done this already, it would probably be a better choice.
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:59 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by chris355 View Post

So here's my question...

If the 'Optimized' oil strainer ($15) and check valve ($50) fixes the problem, why wouldn't AOA just issue a recall? They should be able to upgrade every single 4.0 TFSI in USA for less than the cost of one new D5. Its certainly a hell of a lot less money than a set of blown turbos for us faithful customers left twisting in the wind. Does it make sense to just do this at my next service visit?

...
Answer: its all about the money. Audi's behavior here is really no different than virtually every other manufacturer on what could be potential recall issues. 1. Pretend it doesn't exist. 2. Obfuscate. 3. Foot drag 4. See if you get away with it, get sued or get forced. Whether airbags from Takata, runaway Toyota and Lexus issues, runaway Audi 5000's back in the 80's, BMW engine meltdown issues, GM ignition keys, or VW + Audi diesel debacle just to name a few obvious ones, behavior can easily be generalized and confirmed. Owner loyalty is really not high on the list, other than indirectly if the negative PR gets really bad like in the TDI debacle and maybe the runaway Toyotas and old Audis. Loyalty also often gets overplayed--if you read this thread or board generally, notice increasingly the cars were bought used and not from Audi dealers in many cases. Like other manufacturers, Audi is a lot more likely to pay attention to owners who bought new, or CPO/used from a dealer. Then the secondary issues are the cost benefit analysis to the repair preemptively and whether it really is the definitive fix. On a 4.0T for example, if it wraps into a PCV/fine oil separation issue, at Audi prices and labor that can be a couple thousand dollar bill. If only 5-10% of 4.0T's blow in <100K, it fails their cost benefit analysis to pull them in preemptively--especially when you know the big bucks labor issues on a 4.0T when it involves this work area. See below on the other secondary concern that this may not be the definitive issue either.

Audi is also somewhat rightfully chastened by prior experience. There were a lot of failures of turbos in the 2.7T from the C5 A6 and its counterpart S4 with same motor. Truth be told, a lot of those failures indeed were owners modding the heck out of them. Led to locking down the ECU's better physically, and now the checksums in the ECU software to look for flashes. And yes, owners should assume if they were tuned and the turbo's blow in a warranty scenario, it will likely get caught. AFAIK, you also probably can't back a tune out of an ECU if it is locked up by codes you can't clear. Thus if motor/turbo's already crapped out, likely stuck with tune in there. From C7 posts, Audi is checking for tunes, and dealers are forced to by the Audi USA oversight and warranty reimbursement processes.

Other FYI's for folks generally:

1. Report all issues to NHTSA as a "safety complaint." Particularly note any dangerous situations encountered--car broke down in traffic, dangerous to drive, no response, etc. Checking "safety boxes" probably way ups the scrutiny. No one complaint probably gets anywhere, but expect their software monitors for patterns to then analyze. If enough complaints and NHTSA starts poking hard--or plaintiffs' lawyers notice the rash of filings--maybe it pushes toward an investigation/recall. Form is here: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

2. Folks are pretty much assuming the issue is with the strainers. Might be, but prior reports and information suggest that is only one of several suspect areas. Other possibles include things as simple as broken oil filter assemblies internally--which are somewhat fragile/vulnerable plastic. Faulty prior dealer service for some TSB issues, PCV work or bad turbo design/manufacture may be others. The Audizine C7 board threads have delved into this at times in more depth.

3. I don't think the description in the thread about the real purpose of the check valves is correct. They entirely pre date turbos on Audi motors. They were in my 2000 A6 4.2, and I replaced them in my 1996 2.8 V6. Both are long running normally aspirated motors of course.The purpose is to prevent the oil from draining out of the cylinder heads back into the sump after shutdown. Like most any motor I can think of ever, the heads are an open gallery design, meaning the oil flows in open passages by gravity back to the sump after it is pumped to the cams and to any general sprayers above the rocker assemblies. Thus the check valves hold some oil up in the heads post shutdown. That quiets the valve train on next cold start up, though only so much. Probably not a huge deal to have them or not; many motors probably don't and Audis didn't back in the overhead valve ("pushrod") early days and with pre V6 era overhead cam motors IIRC. By contrast I think the turbo bearings are fed by pressurized oil lines in a closed loop. would have to look at the 4.0T SSP documentation to see where the oil supply side for that is and anything else in the same oil flow circuit. Closed loops don't just drain oil unless one end is open--just like a basic siphon. Thus if the issue is here, it is probably indirect. Thus, not no oil on start up, but rather general starvation by clogged up screens that frustrate flow, if turbo bearing flow is in line after the relevant screens.

4. Definitely keep all receipts for any work done. From having been through this with a bad MAF on my 2000 A6 4.2, when/if an Audi recall happens prior documented work gets reimbursed against receipts. If you get recall notices at times, you often find references to reimbursement procedures too.

Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 02-10-2019 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 02-25-2019, 01:03 PM
  #43  
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Add me to the list of turbo failures. 2015 NWB A8 4.0T with 68,800 miles on it. Turbos failed this morning in traffic in the middle of a busy road trying to turn into my complex at work. Car was taken on a flatbed tow truck to the closest Audi dealer 15 miles away. Dealer took it in immediately and diagnosed turbo failure pretty quickly. Turbos are apparently covered by Audi to 7 years/ 70,000 miles, so I appear to have lucked out from a warranty coverage perspective. The dealer service rep was very helpful about the whole thing and set me up with a new A6 loaner. We'll see how long it takes to get the parts in and get it repaired.
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:43 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by dwboston View Post
Add me to the list of turbo failures. 2015 NWB A8 4.0T with 68,800 miles on it. Turbos failed this morning in traffic in the middle of a busy road trying to turn into my complex at work. Car was taken on a flatbed tow truck to the closest Audi dealer 15 miles away. Dealer took it in immediately and diagnosed turbo failure pretty quickly. Turbos are apparently covered by Audi to 7 years/ 70,000 miles, so I appear to have lucked out from a warranty coverage perspective. The dealer service rep was very helpful about the whole thing and set me up with a new A6 loaner. We'll see how long it takes to get the parts in and get it repaired.
Holy ****! Now I'm going to lose some sleep.
Can you describe your driving habits? Lots of short trips, highway miles, etc? Do you punch it often?? I've been real careful to not punch it until the engine has warmed up, hoping this will extend the engine/turbo's life. Thansk for you input... please keep us posted about repair progress, too.
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:55 PM
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Sorry to hear but glad it seems that you will be covered. Please request that they save the old oil screen and post pictures. Did you notice any symptons at all before it blew? Did anything seem off?

To those in the community who understand the technicals, isn't there any sensor or diagnostic measure that can be employed to assess oil flow health?
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Old 02-25-2019, 06:12 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by TinyElviss View Post
Holy ****! Now I'm going to lose some sleep.
Can you describe your driving habits? Lots of short trips, highway miles, etc? Do you punch it often?? I've been real careful to not punch it until the engine has warmed up, hoping this will extend the engine/turbo's life. Thansk for you input... please keep us posted about repair progress, too.
I have a 30 mile commute each way to and from work. 50/50 back roads (30-40 mph) and highway (65-80 mph). I don't punch it at all. I use ACC on the highway pretty much all the time, set @ 76 mph. No WOT action. Weekend use is mixed - some short trips around town, some highway trips.

Originally Posted by spdemon91 View Post
Sorry to hear but glad it seems that you will be covered. Please request that they save the old oil screen and post pictures. Did you notice any symptons at all before it blew? Did anything seem off?

To those in the community who understand the technicals, isn't there any sensor or diagnostic measure that can be employed to assess oil flow health?
There were no symptoms or warnings at all. Nothing seemed off until the moment it happened. The car was driving normally until I stopped at a red light just down the street from my office building - it started sputtering and seemed like it was lurching forward a bit. I was able to drive down the street about 1/3 mile to the next red light and it just stalled - I couldn't restart it and it threw a bunch of lights and ended up with just the check engine and EPC lights on. I sat in the car for more than an hour waiting for the tow company and tried to restart a few times - eventually it would crank but not turn over. I'll ask the service advisor if they can save the oil screen.
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Old 02-25-2019, 07:00 PM
  #47  
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Mine failed at 168k. Unfortunately there are no warning signs right before they go out. For me it happened the same way. Drove on highway for 70 miles. At the first stop light car stalled after existing highway. I had to press the gas to be able to restart the engine and keep it reved up to be able to move it. Once going the car would run like nothing was wrong. It would not hold idle.
Now looking back few hints that give away a soon to fail turbo.
Once in a while would not stay on the first try when starting.
When I replaced my pcv/oil separator a checked the turbos shaft play and both had some which now Id say was pretty serious considering the new ones I installed had none.
I kept getting a barrometric pressure sensor error. Now I dont.

On the bright side. The way the intake/exhaust is designed, with the oil intercooler in the path of turbos will help keeping metal bits from getting into the engine. So no real engine damage that usually occurs with a blown turbo. The worst can happen is to puncture the oil intercooler or have some metal bits down the exhaust pipes towards cats.
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Old 02-26-2019, 12:57 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Dorelian View Post
Mine failed at 168k. Unfortunately there are no warning signs right before they go out. For me it happened the same way. Drove on highway for 70 miles. At the first stop light car stalled after existing highway. I had to press the gas to be able to restart the engine and keep it reved up to be able to move it. Once going the car would run like nothing was wrong. It would not hold idle.
Now looking back few hints that give away a soon to fail turbo.
Once in a while would not stay on the first try when starting.
When I replaced my pcv/oil separator a checked the turbos shaft play and both had some which now Id say was pretty serious considering the new ones I installed had none.
I kept getting a barrometric pressure sensor error. Now I dont.

On the bright side. The way the intake/exhaust is designed, with the oil intercooler in the path of turbos will help keeping metal bits from getting into the engine. So no real engine damage that usually occurs with a blown turbo. The worst can happen is to puncture the oil intercooler or have some metal bits down the exhaust pipes towards cats.
At least you got decent mileage before they went. All of these reports of turbos blowing at 50-60k miles is unacceptable. Had I not taken the time to learn more about the car and join the forums, I would be oblivious. Unfortunately, I think most A8/S8 owners are oblivious to this problem until it's too late. For a flagship model, Audi really should step up and handle this problem properly especially because it appears to be directly linked to the poor design of the oil screen and their ridiculous service interval of 10,000 mile oil changes. I also have the vibration issue at 1k/3k with their poorly designed downpipes. And why would you place catalytic converters so close to the block? I know the exhaust and turbos there are already creating a ton of heat but why add to it? Cats should have been placed downstream like the APR downpipe design. This whole thing has tainted my view of Audi in general. This is my first Audi and I still love my S8 and will bite the bullet to have the preventative maintenance done for peace of mind. However, I don't believe I will be committing to owning another Audi in the future.
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Old 02-26-2019, 03:42 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by spdemon91 View Post
At least you got decent mileage before they went. All of these reports of turbos blowing at 50-60k miles is unacceptable. Had I not taken the time to learn more about the car and join the forums, I would be oblivious. Unfortunately, I think most A8/S8 owners are oblivious to this problem until it's too late. For a flagship model, Audi really should step up and handle this problem properly especially because it appears to be directly linked to the poor design of the oil screen and their ridiculous service interval of 10,000 mile oil changes. I also have the vibration issue at 1k/3k with their poorly designed downpipes. And why would you place catalytic converters so close to the block? I know the exhaust and turbos there are already creating a ton of heat but why add to it? Cats should have been placed downstream like the APR downpipe design. This whole thing has tainted my view of Audi in general. This is my first Audi and I still love my S8 and will bite the bullet to have the preventative maintenance done for peace of mind. However, I don't believe I will be committing to owning another Audi in the future.
It's probably my last Audi. I've been around long enough to know that every car brand and nearly every model has issues/recalls/problems, but I expected more out of a true flagship vehicle. I've had the car for two years and it's been a blast to drive, but it's spent a decent amount of time in the shop for suspension noise - which took multiple tries to convince the dealer, the downpipes, the trunk motor failure, and now the turbos failing. That's too many issues in 2 years, even with three of the four covered under warranty. I already had my next vehicle (not an Audi) on order when this happened - I had questioned whether I should just get a Q8, but yesterday's events have disabused me of that notion.
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Old 02-26-2019, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by spdemon91 View Post
At least you got decent mileage before they went. All of these reports of turbos blowing at 50-60k miles is unacceptable. Had I not taken the time to learn more about the car and join the forums, I would be oblivious. Unfortunately, I think most A8/S8 owners are oblivious to this problem until it's too late. For a flagship model, Audi really should step up and handle this problem properly especially because it appears to be directly linked to the poor design of the oil screen and their ridiculous service interval of 10,000 mile oil changes. I also have the vibration issue at 1k/3k with their poorly designed downpipes. And why would you place catalytic converters so close to the block? I know the exhaust and turbos there are already creating a ton of heat but why add to it? Cats should have been placed downstream like the APR downpipe design. This whole thing has tainted my view of Audi in general. This is my first Audi and I still love my S8 and will bite the bullet to have the preventative maintenance done for peace of mind. However, I don't believe I will be committing to owning another Audi in the future.
i always changed the oil at 5-6k with few exceptions when I didnt have the time and I got close to 10k.
I do have the vibration... just live with it.
I do have the front suspension squicking....
And yes, you are right! For a 100k dollars car they should do better, considering that these are minor design flaws.

Ps. I know they changed the oil interval on later models, at least on 3.0 engine. I have a friend with a 2015 3.0 and his oil service interval is 5k.
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