Eric Stoll

I'm hoping someone can give some ideas here... My 2015 S8 at 43K miles and 5 months over warranty, engine light came on, ended up being TSB (http://australiancar.reviews/_pdfs/A...7-2_201607.pdf) camshaft adjustment valve issue.

Audi was nice and they decided to fix this under warranty anyway.

They've now had my car for 6 weeks. I'm sure getting parts has been part of it, BUT...

After having the engine out and torn apart once to repair this, they put it all back together then told me I had a bad piston... Which led to them taking it all apart again to realize they assembled the engine wrong and had a timing issue... They're now putting it all back together again. No telling how much taking apart they did to get to this point. No telling how far off they screwed up the timing to think this was a bad piston.

I'm terrified to get this vehicle back.

Any suggestions? Is there a long-term effect to having this engine out and torn down at least twice? To having reassembled it wrong at least once? What hard questions should I be getting the dealer to answer about what happened? So far, they've dodged every question, which isn't leading to any improved confidence.

MP4.2+6.0

So, from the link, are you in Australia, or is that just a web artifact? It's a USA TSB though, so I am not sure. In general, good to include your geography in sig. or avatar--along w/ the year and motor info which you had in the text.

To your questions: Speaking for USA dealer experience, it surprises me they would go into a motor that deep. For the TSB as I skimmed it, that really does not seem that involved as far as invasiveness, so I don't sweat ones like that... until they screw them up, which sounds like is under way. What surprises me is the piston work. That does not sound like standard dealer to me, unless they are working against a TSB or recall--like 2.0T pistons for example. 4.0T on a per side basis is not going to be radically different than other Audi FSI variable timing motors with chain drives, but I would not think they do this very often except with the (rare) engine related recall/service action. When I walk into my dealer service (Rector in Burlingame CA), I routinely see 911's and Caymans endlessly seriously torn down--so much so it makes me wonder casually about deep internal reliability. The Audi service bays are mostly out of sight. But on the boards in general, I would say this is rare, especially for the V8's or older V!0's or W12's.

Yes, you need to understand work. I would try to get a sit down with the service manager. If they basically screwed something up, I can see how they could have backed into a deep dive, but hopefully they will be forthright. You certainly want a summary of all work done (which is normally on a completed dealer repair order) and all parts used. I would also confirm the obvious test drive has occurred. Ones like this will sometimes have an experienced mechanic drive it home overnight to check it both cold and hot. They have done that on some of my D3 W12 repairs that were more involved. A good thing in my book. Finally, for something technical, AFTER a long drive like that, I would want to have it scanned (with their dealer equipment) to confirm there are no error codes in the engine computer (ECU) or elsewhere. Things like the cam system electronics really need those extended test or regular drives to get through some of the internal check routines the ECU runs in the background. Some of the smog/emissions ones also need those longer cold and hot drives, and with that kind of work and motor pull, lots of things got disconnected and reconnected, with the attendant risks.

Eric Stoll

Thanks for the reply.

I'm in the US but the link I found for the TSB just happened to be on an Australian site.

My car is a 2015 S8 with a 4.0 L 520 HP V8 engine.

Based on your reply, if in fact this TSB was the only problem they found, it sounds like there was no reason for them to go so deep into the engine such as to cause a timing issue upon reassembly... Thanks for the info--I definitely need to fully understand what they did and why.

If anyone else has experience with this, please share.

If they screwed up, what recourse do I have?

RED HORSE

Trade when you get it back.

Eric Stoll

Ok, the service manager finally called me. He says the engine went back in today (2 months later)... He says on the first repair of the TSB, they also decided they needed to replace something that helps adjust the timing. Sorry I forget what they called it. He said there are two of them and they replaced one and it helps adjust the timing chain. Main a tensioner? He said then they put the engine in the car (the first time) and realized the timing was off. They pulled the engine out, replaced the other tensioner (if I got that right), and now they're test driving it for the rest of the week.

He said they scoped the cylinders and decided there was no damage.

Not knowing much about this stuff, I feel pretty helpless. Any further comments from the group before I get this car back Saturday?

MP4.2+6.0

Just taking this at face value as you describe it, yes it is possible they did exactly that work. The engine does have to come out for work involving the timing chains/tensioners since they are at the back of the motor and access is essentially impossible.

As before, I would want to see a full parts breakdown on the invoice, plus have the service advisor summarize for you what they are if not obvious from the description. Obviously you should see no check engine light (CEL), but I would also ask for a scan showing all electronic modules across the car are clear. That is, in pulling and replacing motor other things can be disturbed that often don't turn on a CEL or other warning lights--A/C system, maybe some transmission, maybe some power steering electrics, maybe some alternator, horn, headlight squirters and perhaps a dozen or more others that have their own modules and codes that can be stored and that might be disturbed in R&R'ing an engine or engine + transmission. VCDS can tell you all this as a dealer equivalent diagnostic tool. But I expect you don't have that tool as a casual owner just expecting it all to work on a newer car.

Eric Stoll

One thing service manager told me is they replaced a cam adjuster. True or false, are these supposed to be replaced in pairs? One person told me that and I want to be armed with the info in case I find out they only replaced one.

Eric Stoll

Ok quick update on my 2015 S8 and the story isn't getting much better.

The dealer has had my vehicle for 10 weeks now.

I brought it to them under warranty, 5 months ago, for the 1k/3k RPM issue. They said it's not an issue but if it continues after warranty expiration, bring it back and we'll fix it.

10 weeks ago, my engine light came on with a timing code. I brought it to the dealer for this issue and still convinced the 1k/3k issue was a problem asked that they look into that again too.

Although out of warranty time but well under the miles (only 43k), Audi decided to fix the timing issue under warranty. They told me the 1k/3k RPM issue was still not a problem and we moved on from that. They replaced both intake cam adjusters. Put engine together, and got timing codes on cold start, which cleared after the engine was warm.

They determined the main chain tensioner piston lost its pressure and caused timing chain to jump one tooth on the cold start.

Then they replaced the main chain tensioner. The scoped the cylinders to make sure no issues caused by the timing. Found no damage. All the codes cleared on cold start and passed all tests.

They said car was ready for pick-up so I went to get it. In reading the write-up they documented that the flex pipes are in fact bad on the 1k/3k RPM issue, that they called me to offer pricing, and I declined the service. Now that is complete bulls**t. They slid the service paperwork to me so fast, "just signed here and here and you're good to go!" Not so fast. i can't believe they would try this.

I signed nothing. I declined receiving the vehicle. I left the vehicle with them and said fix it.

While all this has been happening, I've also been working with Audi corporate customer service. For the record, they are completely incompetent. They don't even understand the issue.

Back in my loaner and going into week 11.

At least I understand the engine repair a bit better. Happy they replaced both cam adjusters, not just one. But I'm dumbfounded as to why they would try to slip one past me on the 1k/3k RPM issue.

This'll probably be my last Audi.

jlbell

Because they are already loosing money on the initial and second engine repair, so they were hoping to get you back in for the 1k/3k RPM issue, after they got you to sign the papers.

Eric Stoll

That's precisely my point, and thank you for that confirmation. It's unfortunate.