cleex024

all these oils mentioned are some of the best and really can't get much better...i did a decent amount of research back a few years ago when i was getting into tracking and every oil basically performed the same... including Mobil 1, pentosin, motul, liquimoly. They are essential all the same hydrocracked group 3 oils.

if you want longer lasting like the 15k 20k oil change type of oils then you need to get into the group iv pao based oils... but what i was trying to get out of this whole thing was to see if anyone has done any testing on say Mobil1 vs motul v300 or any of the other pao based oils

LexusLSguy

I'm personally not so interested in "extreme" OCI's as I believe this leads to a dirty engine. Cold start protection is one of the most important aspects of an oil IMO. It is where up to 90% of engine wear occurs.

Twglasgow

How much of the additive do you use in your 3.0 litre?

LexusLSguy

I used 1 full can of the Mos2 product. Probably a little on the light side considering the oil capacity. I'm at 65k miles and she cold starts without a hint of clatter. I would say the product works very well.

MP4.2+6.0

Somewhat different take FWIW. I think most of the carbon build up that folks have experienced starts with crap design by manufacturers. That is, when they started incorporating FSI/direct injection, they often didn't think through the PCV system. If you have ever worked on a car with the vapor lines open and started from cold (more an old school, carb era type thing), you realize how much water goes through the PCV system at cold start up. Well, mix that with some oil vapor and you have quite the sludge mess. Then bake it on, for say 50K miles and a thousand starts, and presto, literally baked on mess. With port injection, you had the easy fuel wash every cycle. But not with DI, yet the systems weren't redesigned in many cases.

Having owned a Mini with early DI, of course everyone there knew the classic "catch can" kludge fix. The better factory type approaches are things like fine oil separation as well as tighter tolerances. Audi has used fine oil separation back to my pre-FSI D3 W12 set up. We apparently have that with D4 too, but it seems like the geniuses who flipped the intake and exhaust positions on the heads for better power and less lag didn't think through the access practicalities to those if something goes wrong. That's 4.0T, but I think on 3.0T's they may be likewise buried by the supercharger. So a 30 minute or hour job now turns into a full day, and $100 turns into $1,000+. But then with other motors--even access issues aside--they have really missed the boat. Like the now dead and buried 3.2 with a bunch of idiotic SAI flow ports in the head sure to clog up if you breathe on it wrong. Having owned a D3 for a long time, the only one there that seemed to have some fouling issues was the V10 FSI S8--an early FSI design. Plus I guess the Euro guys with the (Europe only) 3.2 type V6's. While folks sweat or debated it some with the D3 era 4.2's once they went FSI in 2007, in practice few if any fouling reports. There were some with S4's and S5's with the 4.2, but a somewhat different set up and design. Probably more concerns with the chain vs. belt drive, but again the D3 related 4.2 design for FSI that carried over to D4 has had essentially zero chain issues confirmed on the forum.

Net, I actually think carbon build up is often more tied to frequency of cold start and then length of running of motor after start. As in, fully warmed up, vs. increasingly common 5 minute drive to Starbucks, school drop off, whatever. We can't control the motor design stuff, but at least for me I sense which (used) ones to avoid or to coach friends about. Agreed meantime cold start is where the wear occurs. I think real risk of the long intervals is either the additive pack goes to hell and/or you get a big build up of metals or volatile/reactive chemical compounds. The ESP and similar oils really should be capable of that, but like you I prefer not to push. To me, the 10K cycle itself is the push, unless the miles are mostly long distance, higher speeds which are just not realistic in built up metro areas like I live in.

LexusLSguy

I totally agree with you MP. I'm sticking to a 7 or 8k OCI even though I do about 70% highway miles. What I mean by extended OCI's being an issue is with the level of carbon that builds up in the oil from the sources you mentioned. I don't really have scientific proof to show more just experience with my port injected 4.3 in my LS430 mainly. Amazing engine. About the pinnacle of reliability and not really known for any sludge issues.

I was doing about 12k OCI's with M1 EP oil for a good 60k miles on top of using an excellent oversized filter. The oil itself was holding up fine but around 130k miles I started noticing cold start clatter in the heads. It would of course go away after a few seconds but what it was showing me was a lack of lubrcation not from the oil quality but from some the tiny passages getting clogged. What cured it very quickly was running a few quarts of MMO. The oil darkened right away insinuating it was not particularly smart doing such a long OCI even though the oil held up fine.

Funny, I am actually kind of embarrassed to say this but one of my first vehicles was an 80 Oldsmobile Cutlas Supreme that I purchased from a grandmother. As you mentioned she probably just made short trips to the store and did not change the oil often but I had not clue at the time. It had a 4.3 V8 (2) barrel computer controlled carburetor and a 3 speed transmission and so many vacuum hoses it would make you dizzy. I was 19 I think and did not know much about cars but was technically and mechanically inclined. Anyway, I got some terrible advice and being young and stupid I followed it. Took her out on the highway to open it up. Pulled off the exit, put her in neutral and floored it. Once I just a quick one... lol Well, she reved up to who knows what rpm and reved back down as she scored the main bearings on the crankshaft. Needless to say the engine was seized.

Being young and not having any money I went out and purchased the repair manuals and proceeded to rebuild the engine myself. You should've seen the mound of sludge inside the heads. It took me a good four months but I finally got it all back together and boy was that car a piece of ****. Engine came out great and ran for years. Sure taught me a lot about cars though... lol Still have a scar remind me about the experience.

BTAudi

7k mi interval changes with Amsoil European 5w-40 and love it. I may do use redline occasionally as well.

BTAudi

After some research, I'm switching over to Liqui Molly Top Tec 4200. This was suggested by their website.

APPROVALS:

• ACEA C3
• API SN
• BMW Longlife-04
• MB-Freigabe 229.31
• MB-Freigabe 229.51
• Porsche C30
• VW 504 00
• VW 507 00

LIQUI MOLY RECOMMENDS THIS PRODUCT FOR VEHICLES THAT NEEDS TO COMPLY THE FOLLOWING SPECIFICATIONS:

• ACEA A3
• ACEA A5
• ACEA B4
• ACEA B5
• ACEA C2
• API CF
• BMW Longlife-01
• BMW Longlife-01 FE
• Fiat 9.55535-S1
• Fiat 9.55535-S3
• Peugeot Citroen (PSA) B71 2290
• VW 500 00
• VW 501 01
• VW 502 00
• VW 503 00
• VW 503 01
• VW 505 00
• VW 505 01
• VW 506 00
• VW 506 01 (Ausnahme R5 und V10 TDI-Motoren vor 6/2006)

rumenski

ok, so I'm not sure how many other times I've read this misconseption on this and other forums out there.... vw 504/507 spec are 5w-30 grade oil (few rare exceptions can exist in 5w-40) designed SPECIFICALLY for DPF equipped modern COMMON RAIL diesel engines! It is a DIESEL engine oil with a lot more detergents and thermal stability than 502/505 spec 5w-40 gasoline oil. No, you DO NOT need to be concerned about low-level of sulfur in your gasoline powered engine regardless of what type oil spec you are using - 502/50 or 504/507. You should only be concerned about low sulfur level in DIESEL FUEL IF you have a dpf equipped car, as sulfur tends to destroy dpf filters in DIESELS. Not in gasolines. 504/507 spec oil is also designed such that evaporations ending up in the DPF filter do not cause damage to it. That is why this oil is speced differently than 502/505 - because it does not clogg up your dpf. None of this matters in gasoline engines. You can run whatever spec oil you like in a gas engine. 502/505/504/507. It doesn't matter what fuel you will use in your gas powered engine neither - high or low level sulfur - it's going to be ok.

MP4.2+6.0

Sorry, but not correct. Look at the techno materials on 504. Despite your CAPS, 504/507 is NOT just a "DIESEL" oil. I think you misunderstand the spec. Simply, "504" is the "gas" part of the spec and "507" is the "diesel" part of the spec. Your comments really go to 507, not 504. Oils used to be different for the motor fuels, but are now often merged like this.

On the gas side, 504 coexists with very low sulfur gasoline. Ultra low sulphur gas has been the norm in Europe for years, and thus the widespread use of ESP/504 type oils there and very long drain intervals compared to North America. Until perhaps very recently, it likewise has had nothing to do there with DPF's for gas motors, which are largely a diesel add on and also right at the heart of the VW/AudiMercedes, etc. Dieslegate fraud stuff. As an aside for coming trends, DPF's are coming to gas gradually; found in a lower power version of the VW 2.0T gas for example.

Meanwhile with EPA mandates and counterpart Canadian authority reductions in gasoline sulfur finally getting enacted, it is becoming safer to assume gasoline at the pump will be low sulfur. In places like I live in CA it has been mandated for some years without exceptions, so known as safe. Unfortunately the EPA rules permitted small refiners basically to end run the low sulfur requirements for gas in many states that only follow EPA federal rules. So it was more a crap shoot on what the local pump in those states was actually providing. I covered this extensively in the earlier comments to this thread. The comments from three years ago indeed reflected that transition period in many states with the small refiner exception.

The online threads have become sort of convoluted with this DPF and diesel confusion, but here's at least one example that still has some of the gasoline side discussion that the posters are trying to distinguish from diesel: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th....103353/page-2

Also trying to get back to big picture in thread: The DPF rabbit hole ignores the lower wear benefits of 504 over 502--the relevant gasoline side specs. That and longer viable drain intervals are really the big picture here. Specific to D4's and the 4.0T, the oil cleanliness has yet more importance and owner interest with the turbo oil line screen concerns. Making sure it is compatible with the fuel is the side issue that used to be of more worry than now.

Bottom line, for me 504 convincingly over anything 502 for any Audi gas motor that permits it, especially the 4.0T. Literally having some unused 502 on the shelf, I am trying to find older vehicles in which to use it up.