angrypengu

Hi folks,

I've been thinking ad nauseum lately about the whole V6 vs V8 conundrum that have been brought up by several members lately. I know that some have been waiting for the V8 and am certainly pleased that the order guides are indicating that they are just about to be order-able.

I was just wondering (and I see this on the Q8 forums too) what precisely is keeping some prospective buyers away from the V6. Based on the performance of the V6 (again, just my subjective opinion and with all due respect) and the BSG, I'm sitting here wondering what it is that V8 owners/waiters are seeking that is missing with the V6. Here where I live, I have the blessing/nightmare of being able to drive on the most expensive toll road in NA which allows me to hit speeds that are well in excess of what US highways allow me to hit. Based on my day to day driving, and I still have not revved my D5 to the redline due to break in procedures, I am trying to simply understand why anyone feels a V6 is lacking. I don't like bringing this up, but I have on very rare occassions. I am not someone who is adverse to fast cars. I love them, and have a 2018 R8 V10 Plus as my other Audi. I have never and will never compare a R8 to an A8, but I'm seriously trying to figure out why a subset of the population feels a V8 A8 is the way to go.

Just looking for opinions to broaden my understanding - that's all! Many on the Q8 board feel the same way and I have only driven a Q8 once or twice. I understand the start-stop lag is a pain and as many know by now I don't use that stupid (sorry, passionate about that) system! So I don't really know why the V6 is lacking!

Thoughts? Comments? Certainly well appreciated!

Thanks!

superswiss

My answer is not regarding the A8 specifically, but this is a topic that has been coming up with many other models that are losing V8s in favor of smaller V6s. I currently own a '13 RS5 with a sweet high-revving NA 4.2 V8 based on the V10 from the R8 and I just picked up a new '19 C63S Coupe with a 4.0 V8TT. In the context of the A8 I'm guessing that one of the reasons is the smoother character of the V8. A V6 runs rougher than a V8. A V8 also has a larger displacement so down low before the turbo's kick in, it has more oomph on its own, and requires less boost to make its numbers, so the response of the engine is more linear. The smaller the displacement of a turbo engine, the more boost it has to make and less linear the throttle response becomes. You get this hockey stick response, where as the 4.0 V8TTs feel very close to a naturally aspirated engine in terms of their response. I ended up with the C63S among other things because it still has a V8. This is my first car with a turbo charged engine that I actually own. I don't like small displacement turbo charged cars because of the aforementioned tendency of non-linear response. AMG's 4.0 V8TT is one of the few turbo charged engines that feel very similar to a naturally aspirated engine and also still sounds great, which is a big factor in performance cars. Not necessarily for an A8 luxury cruiser. But similarly to what I said above, there's just something about the smoothness of a V8 for normal driving. The ultimate smooth engine is the V12, which is why it was found and is still found in some of the very high end luxury cars.

derfA8L

I’ll chime in also. I’ve driven the turbo V6 in both the Panamera and the D5 A8L. I think it’s better overall compared to the prior supercharged V6 in the D4, but...The new V6 just doesn’t have the response, nor linear smoothness of my D4’s 4.0T V8. The V8 is effortless and provides exceptional power (think torque) in every driving situation when needed—and I never feel the need to shift the tranny into Sport mode with the V8. At some point, the V6’s single twin-scrolling turbo hits it’s limit, while the twin turbo V8 just goes on and on, effortlessly.

On on the highway, the 4.0T just provides me with a defensive (not offensive) driving confidence level that I don’t believe the 3.0T V6 can provide (for me anyway). If my driving needs were more local road skewed, then the V6 would be more than adequate, no doubt. From a pure emotional perspective, it’s an A8! I’ve always had an 8-cylinder in my 4 A8s, and I just wouldn't be satisfied in my next A8 without a V8. Everyone’s needs and expectations differ to one extent or another, and in my case, having the V8 model is not something I’d be willing to give up, at least not in the A8.

Mike911A8

Mark me down as in the V8 camp, in particular the N/A V8 camp.

I suspect that age has an influence . The OHV V8 came along in the mid fifties Chevy , and we were off to the muscle car races. Pardon the pun. Still too young for a drivers license, as kids we would endlessly talk about the merits of our father’s Ford, Chevy or Pontiac V8. My kids like cars, but I don’t think the nature of the engine is that big a deal to them.

As to the merits of 6 vs 8 cylinders, I’ve come to appreciate some 6 cylinder cars along the way. I have been fortunate enough to own some version of a flat six 911 for over forty years, and they have suited me just fine. Intoxicating, actually. I have also owned a 2004 BMW X5 with the straight six, and I marveled at its smoothness. These are N/A engines.

But i was still in love with the V8, and when I learned that Porsche was going to drop the V8 in the Cayenne and replace it with a turbo V6 in 2015, I promptly ordered a 2014 with the wonderful N/A V8, and I plan to keep it for a long time.

Insofar as the V6 in the D5 is concerned, Angry, your write up on the mild hybrid system for that vehicle indicated that that system would give a nice boost in power under certain circumstances, and the overall power supply would work out well.

But, on emotion, and some experience, I’m content to ride things out in my V8’s and flat 6’s. But I’m starting to think that I could find room for a V10 R8. Mike

Eli McCraig

At A8 level, it’s probably mostly perception. This car easily prices over $100k with just a few options. I would imagine executives spending $125k on an A8 would scoff at a measly 3.0T—how pedestrian! And feel something a little more exotic should be standard-a V8T or V8TT.

Personally, I would find it hard to spend $55k plus on a turbocharged 2.0t engine in a luxury vehicle. Hell, even the A4/5 prestige’s are topping out around $57k. When I price an A4/5 how I’d order it, I’m already squarely in S4/5 price territory. And I get an extra 1.0 liter of displacement and 100 HP/TQ gains.

So in 2018, I went back and forth between an A4 and an S4. When I priced them on the configurator, the cost for the S4 was only a couple thousand more, so I thought, if I’m spending $55k or more on a sedan, it better have a V6T, and not the same (or super similar) engine that’s in a VW GTI—-that was my perception. Realistically though, the 2.0T at 252HP/ 273lbfttq, is more than enough power for this sedan. And I would suspect the 3.0T is more than adequate in the A8

ArchieStanton

Well said. My 2016 D4 with the twin turbo V8 was significantly better off the line, passing, climbing hills and accelerating in all situations than the 2019 V6. The turbo lag in standard drive with the V6 is noticeable and annoying. Sport mode reduces the turbo lag but also reduces the fuel economy. The single turbo V6 simply lacks the torque needed for crisp performance of this heavy car.

If a buyer has not experienced the performance of the V8 and is a conservative driver the V6 will do the job. I have found the fuel economy of the V6 to be excellent, which is a plus. That said, I would be happy to pay for the extra fuel.

There was no D5 to test drive when I ordered the car. My lease was running out on my D4. I took the gamble but this car is done at the end of the lease.

AugustHorch

I've had the pleasure of owning several different Audis over the years with different engines - all acquired new until trade-in for the next one.

1. Audi A3 - 2.0L 4-Cylinder Turbo: It was fun, the car was light and sporty and seemed to have enough torque to pick up from a full stop, but wanting to accelerate and pass other comparable or sometimes even certain V8 SUVs was surprisingly challenging and would lead to much higher RPMs and just an overall loud experience which constantly made one think the engine was in pain. So, I made a big jump to improve my driving experience and went to an...

2. Audi A6 - 3.2L Naturally Aspirated V6: This was an emotional purchase as the jump in luxury made me ignore everything else. Well, the low-end torque was laughable. The CVT transmission (which isn't supposed to really produce any "kicks") would sometimes get so overwhelmed trying to work with the engine that some nice kicks were experienced. Acceleration was sub-par too, but otherwise a nice and very reliable car. Eventually I got tired of that engine and switched to an...

3. Audi A6 - 3.0L V6 Supercharged: Compared to the previous A6, this one felt like a rocket. Tap the gas pedal and the car would jump, but as I drove it more and more I noticed how everything was designed to create the impression of a massive torque at low-RPMs and the V6 was at times lacking, having to heavily rely on higher revs and constant boost from the supercharger. Again, great car, but with more highway driving, the shortcomings were getting apparent. So, I test-drove an...

4. Audi A8L - 3.0L V6 Supercharged: I know, dumb... it's the same engine, why would it be different? As someone earlier mentioned, it's the perception on the A8 - well, the A8's luxurious and comfortable feel wasn't enough to make me not notice the shortcomings of the same engine. So, I took my time to find an...

5. Audi A8L - 4.0L V8 Twin-Turbo: Which I have now. Fantastic vehicle on all fronts. A Car and Driver test of this same vehicle found the factory acceleration figures to be conservative and put 0-60 at 3.9 seconds (beating a friend's $140k V6 911 - rated at 3.9 seconds was doubly impressive). It is FAST with all the torque (444 lb-ft) available immediately at near-idle (around 1,500 RPM). Do I push it to the limits 90% of the time? No. But the power's availability contributes enormously to the driving experience and confidence. Coupled with all the other niceties of the D4, this has been the perfect car so far (*knocks on wood*).

So, if I were looking at the D5, would I still go with the V8 - absolutely! If it feels like my current experience or better, it'll be a V8, hands down. W12, if my wallet agrees.

gk1

A V6 is always “enough” when you have a V10 R8 in the garage at home. LOL
For everyone else maybe the V8 is a compromise to the two car setup.

Joshua Stein

I don't mind a V6 but some of them just feel a little unrefined or coarse, and the exhaust note is pretty good, but the sweet burble and smooth nature of a V8 is just great, not to mention that a V8 can still put down good power without the help of a turbo. In a sense its like heated seats, once you have it, its hard to lose it, there's just always something to love about a V8 in comparison to a V6, I myself won't be upgrading to the new S7 mainly because of that (and because of some other questionable choices Audi made). Only 6 cylinder engines that I really like, are inline 6's, they sound great and have a nice howl like noise to them, and they're super silky smooth and just add a lot of character to the car, so only 6 cylinder cars I buy/lease are Bimmers because they've been the only company to perfect them over the years. I'm not a fan in general of 4 cylinders, my wife has one because she doesn't care too much about power or cars in general, but overall they aren't my cup of tea.

derfA8L

A bit of an update on my initial impressions of the new V6–

Had a Q8 loaner this past weekend. As most know, it has the same 3.0T twin-scroll single turbo motor as the V6 A8. While it has been 4 months since I test drove the D5 with this engine, my opinion remains the same: that this V6 doesn’t cut it in either vehicle—at least for my own needs and expectations. Yes, the 3.0T V6 has “adequate” power (for most situations), BUT...it just doesn’t feel quite right in either vehicle after driving my 4.0T twin turbo V8. The V6, just feels less grown-up to me, and doesn’t feel as refined (smooth and silky), nor does it have the grunt I get with the V8 across the entire power band. For those who have the D5 55 TSFI (3.0T) and find it with adequate (or enough) power, I totally get it. However, for me, this recent turn behind the wheel, again, with this engine (admittedly not in the D5 this time, but in a Q8) just reaffirms my original impression—that I couldn’t be happy in a D5 without the V8–nor in a Q8 for that matter.