What to do? - D5 reliability concerns.
09-21-2018, 06:54 PM
#21
AudiWorld Super User
...
So far, I've always been glad I waited for the facelift and my next car is gonna be the same. I was looking at the 2018 C63 S and it didn't quite do it for my, but the 2019 is the mid cycle refresh and again, most of my complaints have been addressed with the facelift, so I'm most likely gonna place an order in December for a May European Delivery. I'm changing brands this time after having owned Audis for the last 12 years. The diesel gate aftermath is starting to show signs within Audi. The Management is made up of sales people with a reputation in cost cutting and no longer Engineers as before. I'm starting to notice it in the products they are putting out. Don't wanna discourage you if you have your eyes set on Audi, but I'm not feeling very enthusiastic about the brand anymore. I just happened to talk to one of my German acquaintances last night. He used to be a big Audi fan and still has contacts within Audi Germany and he echoed much of the same sentiments. The VW Group has their work cut out for them.
09-22-2018, 06:36 AM
#22
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
48V Lithium Ion battery. Part # 4N0915105B or 4N0915105D
Price in CAD$: $3519
Not covered under extended warranty. Am asking about the 4 year 80k warranty now.
Price in CAD$: $3519
Not covered under extended warranty. Am asking about the 4 year 80k warranty now.
09-22-2018, 11:29 PM
#23
AudiWorld Super User
Perhaps you also saw the recent Audi low profile announcement that they cut Euro delivery as of Dec 31 of this year? Thus another reason you would (need to) go a different direction. I did it with Audi in their Gen 1 program in 1985, and their second go at it with the Q5 in 2013. The Q5 replace would likely have been Audi on Euro delivery, but now could well be a smaller nice VW at a cut rate price. Odd way for them to take dollars out, and in this case a prospective sale and migration down market.
09-23-2018, 10:57 AM
#24
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Perhaps you also saw the recent Audi low profile announcement that they cut Euro delivery as of Dec 31 of this year? Thus another reason you would (need to) go a different direction. I did it with Audi in their Gen 1 program in 1985, and their second go at it with the Q5 in 2013. The Q5 replace would likely have been Audi on Euro delivery, but now could well be a smaller nice VW at a cut rate price. Odd way for them to take dollars out, and in this case a prospective sale and migration down market.
" “Everything that the customer no longer demands or pays enough for will be canceled,” a source at Audi’s headquarters in Ingolstadt told Handelsblatt. "
So maybe it's because customers didn't really demand enough of it, or they didn't pay enough for it so it is a cost cutting measure. Anyways, what I'm getting at, is that it's a bit of a stretch to say that Audi is cutting Euro delivery because of cost cutting. We can speculate, but we don't know.
09-23-2018, 08:22 PM
#25
AudiWorld Super User
Audi's official comment is that it's because models are not all being made in Ingolstadt and Neckarsulm (pardon for my spelling here). Maybe that is officially the case? I don't know. Audi's 2017 cost cutting mandate:
" “Everything that the customer no longer demands or pays enough for will be canceled,” a source at Audi’s headquarters in Ingolstadt told Handelsblatt. "
So maybe it's because customers didn't really demand enough of it, or they didn't pay enough for it so it is a cost cutting measure. Anyways, what I'm getting at, is that it's a bit of a stretch to say that Audi is cutting Euro delivery because of cost cutting. We can speculate, but we don't know.
" “Everything that the customer no longer demands or pays enough for will be canceled,” a source at Audi’s headquarters in Ingolstadt told Handelsblatt. "
So maybe it's because customers didn't really demand enough of it, or they didn't pay enough for it so it is a cost cutting measure. Anyways, what I'm getting at, is that it's a bit of a stretch to say that Audi is cutting Euro delivery because of cost cutting. We can speculate, but we don't know.
Having been there, the Ingolstadt delivery center is very cool. But delivery to Americans (or Canadians) is a minor part of it. Many customers in Europe choose to go to the center (or its Neckarsulm counterpart) to pick up their new Audi. They have a big museum coupled to it as well, plus the factory tours. As far as I know, they aren't changing the European based primary nature and business of that center, so then honestly the spin about moving cars around Europe not working with modern manufacturing just plain doesn't hang for yet another primary and demonstrable reason for the very same central delivery center and process. For Q5 all the way to Mexico now, sure, but likewise the other German manufacturers don't do "European delivery" for their US manufactured SUV models either.
The parent company has bled well one $20BB due to its fraud. The most recent Audi president literally sits in a German jail pre charges for alleged attempted witness tampering. They are facing serious investigations and suits in the German Heimat for their alleged misleading disclosures from the most senior levels in connection with the TDI scandal--not exactly a litigious climate like the USA. All not a strong track record on being straight said charitably, let alone honestly acceptable in this day and age where facts are so easily available. Penny wise and pound foolish to me when in counting and saving those smaller amounts you lose the brand appeal and customer loyalty for the long term.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 09-23-2018 at 09:36 PM.
09-24-2018, 05:41 AM
#26
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Yeah I think we can as a reasonable conclusion, though honestly my more important point was it is gone prospectively for North America customers and it lessens the appeal of the brand incrementally for some buyers. Factually, superswiss mentioned it in his reply concerning his interest in a Mercedes, so I thought I would mention it to him. Meanwhile, Audi deflecting and misleading spin in terms of "just" those two factories. Look on their own main web site and you find the others, many of which have been there for a lot of years. They have been making the Q3 in Spain since like the get go. Ditto on the Q7 in Bratislava from its get go over a decade ago. Likewise, A3/ tt to Hungary for 5 or so years now--where essentially all the engines come from. So, their statement is itself misleading said directly, with some high volume platforms that come to US like Q7 more than 10 years.
Having been there, the Ingolstadt delivery center is very cool. But delivery to Americans (or Canadians) is a minor part of it. Many customers in Europe choose to go to the center (or its Neckarsulm counterpart) to pick up their new Audi. They have a big museum coupled to it as well, plus the factory tours. As far as I know, they aren't changing the European based primary nature and business of that center, so then honestly the spin about moving cars around Europe not working with modern manufacturing just plain doesn't hang for yet another primary and demonstrable reason for the very same central delivery center and process. For Q5 all the way to Mexico now, sure, but likewise the other German manufacturers don't do "European delivery" for their US manufactured SUV models either.
The parent company has bled well one $20BB due to its fraud. The most recent Audi president literally sits in a German jail pre charges for alleged attempted witness tampering. They are facing serious investigations and suits in the German Heimat for their alleged misleading disclosures from the most senior levels in connection with the TDI scandal--not exactly a litigious climate like the USA. All not a strong track record on being straight said charitably, let alone honestly acceptable in this day and age where facts are so easily available. Penny wise and pound foolish to me when in counting and saving those smaller amounts you lose the brand appeal and customer loyalty for the long term.
Having been there, the Ingolstadt delivery center is very cool. But delivery to Americans (or Canadians) is a minor part of it. Many customers in Europe choose to go to the center (or its Neckarsulm counterpart) to pick up their new Audi. They have a big museum coupled to it as well, plus the factory tours. As far as I know, they aren't changing the European based primary nature and business of that center, so then honestly the spin about moving cars around Europe not working with modern manufacturing just plain doesn't hang for yet another primary and demonstrable reason for the very same central delivery center and process. For Q5 all the way to Mexico now, sure, but likewise the other German manufacturers don't do "European delivery" for their US manufactured SUV models either.
The parent company has bled well one $20BB due to its fraud. The most recent Audi president literally sits in a German jail pre charges for alleged attempted witness tampering. They are facing serious investigations and suits in the German Heimat for their alleged misleading disclosures from the most senior levels in connection with the TDI scandal--not exactly a litigious climate like the USA. All not a strong track record on being straight said charitably, let alone honestly acceptable in this day and age where facts are so easily available. Penny wise and pound foolish to me when in counting and saving those smaller amounts you lose the brand appeal and customer loyalty for the long term.
09-24-2018, 10:44 AM
#27
AudiWorld Super User
Thread is going in several directions, and not sure that the central question about D5 reliability has been directly addressed. With no direct hands on experience with the D5–and real world long term reliability for this new model a few years out—I’ll address my 13 years of current and previous A8 experience: two D3s and 2 D4s— Quality and reliability for all 4 cars was/is excellent. No major problems, and certainly nothing that would necessitate leaving any of the cars in the shop. Essentially just scheduled maintenance.
Additional Input: My 2011 D4 (1st M.Y. D4) was one of the early build vehicles to arrive in the U.S. (arrived late February 2011) and was very reliable. The only real issues that were dealt with with no problems were a loose transmission mount and replacement of the driver's seat frame. Had the car for nearly 4 years and it always brought a smile to my face--as does the 2015 A8L 4.0T--although the twin turbo V8 brings on a wider smile :-))
Additional Input: My 2011 D4 (1st M.Y. D4) was one of the early build vehicles to arrive in the U.S. (arrived late February 2011) and was very reliable. The only real issues that were dealt with with no problems were a loose transmission mount and replacement of the driver's seat frame. Had the car for nearly 4 years and it always brought a smile to my face--as does the 2015 A8L 4.0T--although the twin turbo V8 brings on a wider smile :-))
Last edited by derfA8L; 09-24-2018 at 12:54 PM.
09-24-2018, 10:46 AM
#28
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Thread is going in several directions, and not sure that the central question about D5 reliability has been directly addressed. With no direct hands on experience with the D5–and real world long term reliability for this new model a few years out—I’ll address my 13 years of current and previous A8 experience: two D3s and 2 D4s— Quality and reliability for all 4 cars was/is excellent. No major problems, and certainly nothing that would necessitate leaving any of the cars in the shop. Essentially just scheduled maintenance.
Those were notorious in D3s and early D4s.
09-24-2018, 10:50 AM
#29
AudiWorld Super User
Nope, never surfaced in any of the previous A8’s, and hasn’t been an issue in my current 4.0T V8 D4. The only time carbon buildup was a problem for me in an Audi was in my 1998 A6.
09-24-2018, 11:19 AM
#30
AudiWorld Super User
Oh wow, thanks for the insight. I wasn't aware that European customers can still pickup their cars at Audi, so this definitely lends further credence that Audi is doing what Audi is great at, which is "spinning" the truth. The more I think about how the cards are stacked here, the more it makes me want to stay away from Audi. The A8 is a beautiful car, and in a week or two I will probably still drive it, but I have sworn to myself to never buy an Italian car because reliability is important to me, and thus, here I am again thinking about Audis which just quite frankly makes me a hypocrite. I don't know whether or not my fears of owning an Audi again is greater than or less than my want of one, and I suspect many of us are in the same shoes. This is truly unfortunate, not only for me (us), but also for Audi.