1984 4kq: Resurrection
 

Well, due to some recent changes, I was forced to get this car registered again, so since I'm down to only three projects I can give it some attention.

Is anyone still out there? I don't know, but since I'm going to be having to do some mojo to get this car going I figured I might as well document it. It's been sitting for about four years or so. The only reason it was parked is because the back doors don't open and I needed something to load kids into. At that time they still needed help getting buckled into carseats.

Once I put a battery in it and borrowed the fuel pump from my Fox (Audi) it fired right up, but wouldn't rev much. I managed to get it moved by flooring it.

And then I found out why...

Here's the gas that came out of the tank:

Attachment 103138

No, that's not a dirty old oil pan, it was sparking clean.

Then I removed the tank...

Attachment 103139

Look at how much trunk space we could have! I briefly fantasized about having a custom tank made that would fit between the frame rails and down into a hole behind the diff. Then I snapped out of it. Maybe someday when I get a garage and a TIG welder.

I did one round of toilet bowl cleaner in the tank, but unfortunately didn't get a pic. Tons and tons of rust flakes and brown liquid came out. I'm going to do another once it clears up a bit outside.

Here's where she sits...

Attachment 103140

Aside from more tank cleaning, I'm also going to be reviving as many of the three seized fuel pumps I have as I can. Two were brand-new Bosch pumps and one looks to be an Airtex that will be good to keep in the trunk if I can get it unstuck. I'm making a rig to do this, and if it works I'll document that. I don't know if they're stuck because of gummy gas or (more likely) rust from water settling right down into them. Good ole ethanol. If I can't get one of them going I'll probably cut it open.

Stay tuned.

-Rog

Got started on my art project...

Attachment 103137

:D Most of this fuel pump rig is stuff I had lying around, so at the very least it'll be cheap. I only bought the switch and a junction box that will hold all the wiring. See if you can guess what's what as I go along.

-Rog

More colorful...

Attachment 103135

I feel like I should paint the board something crazy. Pink?? The kids already decorated it at some point with a bat, so at least that's something. Actually I do think I have some purple latex paint somewhere...

All right, I'm sure nobody's in a playing mood, so I'll explain what everything is. (Thank the maker there's only a few days left of this miserable year!)

The two bolts are for hooking up either a car battery or charger to provide power. Inside the box is a 30A circuit breaker I scavenged from a Power Wheels car, just in case. The switch has three positions and six terminals. I wired it so that the middle is off, one side runs the pump forward, and the other side runs it backward. That's the best way to get a pump unstuck-- rock the impeller/armature back and forth with some kind of penetrating fluid inside.

You can see here what they look like inside and how much surface area there is to get glued in place:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/fuelpump_cutaway.jpg

So that's pretty much it. The yellow things are some kind of contraptions for buttering corn. I'll drill some holes in them so I can ziptie the pump down. I also have a tank that I might add at some point that would allow for fluid to be flushed through the pumps. But for now, we'll see how it goes.

-Rog

Well, she works...

Attachment 103134

The Airtex and one of the Bosch pumps freed up after a few minutes of back-and-forth plus some tapping on the ends with a rubber mallet. The last Bosch pump has not yet come back to life. It clunks in both directions, but that's it so far. I'll keep working on it.

Yeah, we started painting it purple. Turns out this operation gets pretty messy, and the acetone/ATF mixture I'm using is just going to take the paint off so it may have to stay bare wood.

Also, my fancy charger won't work for this, which I figured. For now I'm using a battery, but I'll dig out my rusty old metal charger that my dad had. No fancy circuits to overthink things.

Lastly, I used ring terminals, but I'm definitely going to switch to alligator clips. Also thinking of attaching one of the "free with coupon" Harbor Freight multimeters.

Wish me luck with the last one...

-Rog

I think the tank is finally as clean as it's going to get. The first round I used The Works toilet bowl cleaner, while this time I decided to try this since it was half the price and specifically says it works on rust (seemed no better or worse though):

Attachment 103119

Seemed the same. The ingredient that works on rust is hydrochloric acid (AKA muriatic acid), which almost all toilet bowl cleaners have (or hydrogen chloride, which reacts with moisture into hydrochloric acid), so that's not surprising. My only tip is to not buy the kind that's simply bleach (sodium hypochlorite) because that will just cause rust.

It's important to know that you'll never be able to get a shiny inside and have it stay that way. But those worked really well to dislodge the big flakes that were causing problems. Also, these tanks have no way to effectively drain them, since all of the openings have a lip on the inside. I elected to drill a hole in one of the top corners, which made it much easier. I'm just trying to decide if I want to put in a removable plug of some sort or just seal it back up.

Also, when you're done flushing it out with water, definitely slosh something oily around in it and then drain again. Some things you could use would be diesel, some ATF or clean motor oil mixed with acetone or mineral spirits, or WD40 if you have a jug of it. All of those will be fine to leave a film of until you can fill the tank again. The car won't even notice.

-Rog

Something I found out today: If someone buys a cut-to-order hose from a parts store and then returns it, they'll throw it in a box and give it away for free or cheap. It's usually short pieces, but in my case I got enough to replace the hoses from the tank to the return line and to the fuel pump for free. BTW, it's 1/2" for the fuel pump and 5/16" for the return.

Looking forward to the kids going back to school this week so I can work on it some more.

-Rog

Hey man....love this stuff...please, keep posting up ....im sure there more of us out there...and more pictures please ! 😉👍

^Thanks!

The weather has finally stabilized a bit so I've been wrestling the tank back in. The part that sucks is the rubber grommet that the two tubes from the tank go through in the floor. And also four vacuum lines. You can either put the grommet in first and then struggle to line it up with the gas tank tubes or install it on the gas tank and then struggle to get the vacuum lines through and then get it sealed properly in the hole. So far no luck with that, I'm going to have to see if anyone has posted any tips. I hope so, lots of people have had to take their tanks out and clean them.

Also, Google is almost useless these days for stuff like this. You try to look up something car-related and you get pages of places selling parts. Then when you finally get to actual results you realize that Google has excluded most of the words that you were searching for. How is that helpful? Putting them in quotes no longer works like it did, nor does adding + in front of words. Grr.

-Rog

Good article I found on the tank, though no luck on the grommet yet:

quattroworld.com Forums: Fuel tank repair (pics to follow)

Makes me wonder if I should just do the same while I have it out.

-Rog

$#@% that rubber grommet. For now I reinstalled everything and just left it loose.

I thought I had a blockage in the fuel supply line, but it turned out that the Airtex, while it works, is not strong enough to actually pump fuel. So I'm on the working Bosch and so far it's doing great.

However, I've still got the no-rev issue:


Which is almost certainly gummy goo in the fuel distributor (dealt with this before), so I'll have to grab some carb cleaner which seems to be the only thing that will cut through it.

Ah well, at least I know there's no crap in the tank to clog things up now.

-Rog

Wow, a year already? Been tinkering with this off and on, but still not much luck. It does rev better now, and I could probably drive it if I wanted. But it runs rich and the idle hunts. Unplugging the ISV causes it to stop hunting but idle really low. It still stumbles if you really floor it. It feels exactly like a vacuum leak, but I've gone over it and replaced just about every hose, the injector seals, even the intake manifold gasket.

Then I was looking at a way old thread of mine back from when I was still driving it and it was having the same issue, but only for a few seconds after its first start. I had forgotten about that. So now I'm looking into the O2 sensor and will probably just go ahead and replace the distributor cap and rotor, as they have some burning going on. I love working on my other Audi because it has CIS basic, no ECU or anything other than spark (bulletproof Crane ignition) and fuel (pretty much tunes like a carb) to deal with. Then you have these cars which think they're smarter than you but there's no way to plug in a computer and have the car tell you what's wrong like a newer vehicle. So the tinkering continues...

-Rog

LOL, the idle was fixed when I realized the idle screw was cranked all the way in... Now I just need to figure out why it misses a bit, especially at higher RPM. I'm very tempted to go to a Crane ignition like I put on my other car. The nice thing is it basically uses a light that shines through holes in a wheel attached to the distributor shaft, so it shouldn't be too difficult to make a custom wheel that would work for a 5-cylinder. But that cured all the problems on my 4-cylinder.

I have driven it a bit, even went to Target and parked in the spot I used when I worked there (and last drove the car regularly) 10 years ago.

Attachment 102315

-Rog

Some nonsense things, just to make myself feel like I'm accomplishing something while I faff about with the ignition problem...

I noticed that the sunroof no longer opened very well, so as a test I sprayed WD-40 on the rails and then it really shot open. I recommend doing this as a test just to see if it's just gunky or if it's something else. Since WD-40 isn't a good permanent fix I cleaned the rails and lubricated them. I'm going to try gear oil and see how that does.

Random image of it that shows nothing but I'm posting it because pictures:

Attachment 102306

Another thing is the trunk seal. Mine has always leaked. Here's a picture of the cross-section for reference:

Attachment 102307

And here's a random one on eBay that I'm going to try:

Attachment 102308

-Rog

My gas gauge read completely empty, even after I dumped some more gas in the tank. Turned out to be that the sending unit was so crusty that it wasn't making electrical contact where the float arm meets the housing. Took it apart and got it all clean so now it works. If you have a rusty tank you'll probably want to do the same.

-Rog

I had modded my side markers years ago and one of the splice connectors was loose now and it wasn't working. So today's small project was soldering the connections. Also, the mod is splicing the side marker's GROUND wire into the front turn signals so they function as both marker lights as well as turn signals. On these cars it's the black wire on the turn signal side and it'll be brown for ground on the side markers, although I used blue to extend the wire.

Attachment 102291

I'll double check which wire it is on the facelift cars, but I think it's the same. Splicing the side marker grounds into the turn signals works on just about any car as well.

-Rog

A failed attempt at restoring some of the plastic trim... I tried some undercoating stuff that's pretty awesome and would have worked great but it's too hard to get the right texture. The stuff just blasts out and some areas end up too smooth, some perfect, and some with a sandy texture.

Attachment 102289

So I sanded it down and I'll just spray it with some satin black. I should mention that in my youth I had painted it all yellow, and then later some pieces got covered with some marine vinyl that turned out not to be as UV resistant as advertised, so they needed some work.

Also figured out why some of my doors weren't opening, which is because of the door strikers not having their plastic bushings. For now I'm using the shrink tubing trick, but I'll be getting new ones, along with new door handles, such as the Chinese ones are.

Attachment 102290

-Rog

I have successfully opened all of the doors!

Attachment 102275

I can't even remember the last time I had all of them open. New door strikers on the way. We'll see what the quality is like.

I know, the speaker holes. They just did not put good places for good speakers in older cars. I may just shore up those holes and use them again. They worked fine, other than not being very secure.

Taking it to the drive-in this weekend.

-Rog

Made it to the drive-in. Based on the flyers and tickets I found in the car when I cleaned it out, the last time I took it was six years ago. And really I haven't been there much since. It rained the whole time but it felt great to be back.

Attachment 102269

I don't want to jinx it, but I think the really bad hesitation is gone. What I think it was is a leak at the fuel filter that I never fixed. I tightened it properly and so far no more leak. But we'll see once it gets warm, which is when it was most obvious. I'm also trying some Techron. I know Chris Fix "debunked" it, but he was testing it as a cylinder cleaner, which it's not even designed to be. Everything I've read says it's the best fuel system cleaner though. Six years of gunk? We'll see.

-Rog

I decided to see if my grille was repairable. I noticed some cracks starting to form over the last couple years, so I figured it was about falling apart. But just a few cracks that I think I can fix easily. Not bad considering it's about 10 years old, I knew almost nothing about making that sort of thing, and I didn't have the money to do it the way I wanted.

Attachment 102232

I forgot that I had painted it red first, then saw it didn't match well enough (before I discovered Rustoleum Sunrise Red, a perfect match for Tornado), and then used Plasti Dip. I thought I used bedliner, so it makes sense now that it started to fail. Not bad though, I have to say. Trying to get it patched so I can use the weekend to sand and paint it.

Also, the Techron seems to have done its job. It's really been running great.

-Rog

Well bugger, I'm having a harder time than I thought in finding new door striker pins.

These are the ones I got:

Attachment 102223

The part number is 357837034, which seems to be one of those "it fits a Volkswagen so it therefore fits an Audi" but it doesn't. Literally every online catalog lists them as being for pretty much any VAG car of the 80s, including the genuine Audi parts site. I wish the EPC site was still around so I could at least get the right part number.

These ones are just a little too short so the latch hangs up on the flared part at the end. I may see if they can be ground down or something. But they also seem a bit too skinny, like the ones on my B1 which does use VW strikers (they may in fact fit it).

This is so silly, it's not like it's a fancy assembly like on the later cars or a Mercedes. I might try to make my own. It's not much more than an M12x1.0 bolt with a smooth part for the latch to grab. Hmm...

-Rog

I decided I'm just going to make new door cards. The fabric is falling off the rear ones and the fronts have that plus the old speaker holes.

Wandered around the fabric store for awhile before I finally settled on what to cover them with:

Attachment 102221

-Rog

^ That was a kidding, by the way. Just trying to root out any purists that might be lurking.

I have been working on this off and on. At the moment I'm finishing up the battery relocation. At the very least you would do well to swap out the wimpy grounding cable for a hefty one:


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.aud...4db9da5921.jpg

I did one of those from the battery to the body (in the trunk) and one from the engine to the body. I can tell you that the starter really spins now and the headlights are much brighter. I'll definitely be looking at all the grounds and seeing what I can improve.

And in the "one thing leads to another" nature of these cars, I noticed that this wire was in bad shape:


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.aud...1292a7a617.jpg

It's the one that goes from the fusebox to the starter.

Traced it all the way back to the fusebox, in fact, and it was bad the whole way, so I replaced it completely.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.aud...6bd5ea2752.jpg

I had the same problem on my B1 so I'm curious if that wire is bad on anyone else's car.

-Rog

Rog,
I've been thinking about swapping out the grounds on mine too. I've got the transmission out atm working on third gear, so now would be a good time to fix any wiring while alot of the junk is out of the way. How the running going?

A little bit of an update . . .

I replaced the two temp sensors, the one on the back of the head and the one by the thermostat. Didn't really seem to change anything. But now that it's cold I'm able to drive it all the way to work before it starts to misbehave. Any farther and it starts to act like it's misfiring just as you roll the throttle off idle. Once it gets past that it runs and accelerates just fine.

One thing I observed is that the connector on the side of the distributor is broken so I have it ziptied to the distributor and the other day I jiggled that and the engine died. That explained something that was happening while driving where it would die for a second or two and then get going again. I secured it better and haven't been able to jiggle it enough to repeat that. But while working in the area I was thinking that maybe the distributor is wonky and isn't advancing correctly or something. The original started misbehaving and causing a random fuel pump cutoff that would last for a second or two or sometimes it would leave me stranded for awhile. Finally figured out the problem (hall sensor) and replaced it with the one from my parts engine, which wasn't exactly mint either. So I'm going to see if I can find another one to try.

I was also thinking about the O2 sensor, since it seems to be temperature related. Once it starts to warm up, perhaps it's not handing off correctly between idle and throttle engagement.

Just some things to think about. For now I'll be driving it until I figure it out or the weather gets too warm.

-Rog

Oh, and I don't think I've mentioned this before, but the turn signal flashes faster the colder it is outside. When it was down around 10F awhile back it sounded like a playing card in bicycle spokes. :eek:

I pulled the flasher out and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with it. I know that the reason turn signals flash faster when a bulb is out is because of a change in current, so I'm sure it's related to a difference in current, but the cause is a mystery. It never did this before it was parked, so the only thing I can think of is corrosion of some kind. I plan on checking out all the wiring, but if anyone has had this problem I'd be interested in hearing your experience.

-Rog

Been doing a few little things...

Flushing the cooling system (this is about the sixth change with either just water or water and radiator flush, both of which are clear):

Attachment 101645

Changed the oil and I'm trying out the 1.8t oil filter which is HUGE:

Attachment 101646

I don't know of any particular benefit, but a little more oil capacity and they're easier to find it seems like. Oh, I almost forgot to mention that yes I don't have any AC stuff, but I did still have the bracket and it looks like the larger filter will fit just fine if your car has AC. Now, if you have a 10vt engine there's a little nub on the block that you have to grind down a bit but it's very, very minor.

Finding and fixing vacuum leaks, like a small crack on the bottom of the Stupid Hose™, which I gobbed up with Permatex Black, which works great on these:

Attachment 101647

And the hose on the crankcase vent tube, which was a very significant leak:

Attachment 101648

Still not quite running perfectly, but I think fixing those last two helped some. The most annoying part about these cars is how you find some catastrophic issue and think, "Wow, this was definitely the source of it not running correctly!" and then you fix it and...no change.

-Rog

I'd make sure your afm in the fuel distributor is moving freely

Another year goes by... Having run out of cheap stuff to replace, I figured I would snap up some new injectors while they're still available and what do you know...


Runs like new. I wish I'd known, although I wasn't really in a position to spend that kind of money back then. I'm guessing the old ones weren't opening properly at low RPM but the extra pressure above 3000 allowed them to open fully and then it would run great.

My last reservation about this car is the windshield. Have searched far and wide with no luck. Should have gotten one a few years ago when Safelite was still making them. :(

What's that, you want to hear the exhaust I cobbled together from stuff I had sitting around because everything was closed and I only had enough non-rotten pipe to make it a side exit? Well, okay then...

Hey Rog,

Been following this thread for some time, as I too have a tornado red 4KQ.

A buddy of mine was able to order windshield glass through a shop in the Boulder, CO area. They are called Berg Performance, and they are an Audi Porsche shop. You might give them a try, I don't think the price was super bad at all.

https://bergperformance.com/contact

If they can't right now you can certainly have them contact you if a windshield comes into stock at one of their suppliers.

Anyways, best of luck to you, the car sounds great.

Thanks for the tip! My sister lives in Boulder so now that it's running good I would have no problem driving it there (once it's safe to travel again).

In the meantime I tackled the dismal headlights, replacing the outer ones with housings that accept H4 bulbs. Since I had no need for the high beams, which were completely shattered anyway, I replaced those with yellow fogs, since I quite like that look. I can always switch them to something else too (they'll be on a switch). At any rate, they bright now! I'll get a pic once I finish repainting the grill and bezels I had made years ago and put those back on.

On the windshield, they want $500. :eek:

Bummer man. I didn't expect that much.

I still might be interested, but only if I can get up there to bring it home myself (or have someone there change it). Shipping is another $200 probably and who knows what can happen during transit.

Today I replaced the driver side window regulator, which has been broken and held up with a bolt for probably 15 years. Only thing is that the switch works intermittently. Can't tell if it's the switch or the connector, but I'll have to dig into that next.

The windshield isn't super hard to do yourself, the biggest problem I ran into was the locking strip that is pushed into the rubber seal that goes around the windshield. As usual, NLA part and mine is shrunk and cracking and falling apart, but I had to reuse it anyways.

Oh yeah, I remember that from the other car I had a windshield done on and the guy couldn't get the strip back in. I ended up leaving it out and I found a thick enough insulated wire that stuffed in there quite well. I'd probably do that again, or find something similar that would really lock in. I heard rumors of a channel-less seal that superseded the old one but now I can't find any mention of it.

But yes, the rubber seal type windshields are so much easier, especially with rounded corners like these have. I worked at a body shop once and sometimes it would take us half the day to cut out a glued windshield. The worst was a Chevy Lumina van, right where the dash meets the hood. That was a nightmare.

Hello all,

just a quick FYI on the windshield topic.

Al B2's have the rubber style installation. There never was and will be a glued in version. That is impossible to achieve due to the frame overlap design.
As for the NA B2's. they all have the hook strip clamped to the body. This was a DOT requirement the to prevent the windshield from popping out in an accident. The big disadvantage is the replacement, it makes the reuse of the rubber almost impossible and you need a new one.
All EU and ROW B2's don't have that crap strip. Ina and out is just a matter of minutes. My advise, take the hook strip out, throw it in the garbage and forget about it.

Ciao

Werner

Yes, glued windshields was a completely separate thought related to my past experience on OTHER cars. Just saying I'm glad these cars don't have that. I have seen where some have had sealant on them that made it more difficult, but for the most part removing the windshield is as easy as flipping the rubber flange out from the inside.

Curious about the "hook strip clamped to the body", what is that referring to? On my 85 the glass guy removed the rubber seal easily and we ended up reusing it.

I've also considered finding a junkyard one in good shape and just swapping them at the location rather than trying to transport one loose.