Audi 4000 Quattro 20v turbo build
12-23-2012, 03:14 PM
#1
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Audi 4000 Quattro 20v turbo build
Im doing some research on Audi 4000 Quattro 20v turbo build and would more info if there is anyone thats done this swop before.
I am busy buying a 4000 manual quattro (have a couple to chose from)
I am new to audis so all advice will be helpfull.
I have been talking to Rogviler on here a bit -
-Quote-
Peter Sask
Rogviler - How much work is swapping a 20vt in to the 4000?
-----------------------
Rogviler
A 20vt isn't too bad. Some things make it easier, like the lack of having to figure out what to do with all the CIS stuff. If you can do one you can do the other. I've had the opportunity to see a few 20vt swaps in person, and I was really surprised with how much better a lot of it fits than the 10vt or even the plain 10v.
On the other hand, the radiator can be a challenge due to the intake manifold being on that side. I generally see people angling the stock one, but I've also seen some more custom stuff that places it in the front or makes it more compact in the stock location.
Running the intake piping is a heck of a lot easier since you don't have to run two different directions with it.
Totally worth the effort though.
-Rog
--------------------------
Peter Sask
Do you think it would be better to keep the 4000 stock transmission(manual) or use a 20vt one?
What Hp will be safe on stock internals.
What kind of modifications to body/engine will be needed to make this work
---------------------------------
Rogviler
I'd stay with the stock transmission myself. It can hold a lot of power, as long as you have a good clutch and pressure plate. If you're going to go way beyond stock with the horsepower then maybe, but I haven't seen too many people worrying about that part of it. If you wanted a 6-speed or something then that's different.
I really don't think there's much you need to change to get it to fit. Pretty much like the 10vt but without chopping stuff to get the CIS airbox in there. You'd still need to move the battery to the trunk, but it isn't as tight so I believe you can forgo the bent tie rod.
I'll admit I don't know as much about the 20vt, so I can't say for sure how much power it can handle, but I do know that all the stock stuff is built for a lot more power on those engines, which is why they're so popular for tuning. Again, I haven't seen too many people worry about the internals, even when going well beyond stock.
I'll try to find a good swap thread for you. Derracuda on Motorgeek has a pretty badass setup, and he's one of the few that takes pictures and explains a lot, but it has to be said that he does a LOT of custom fabrication that isn't going to be necessary on a straight swap.
-Rog
--------------------------------
Peter Sask
What year 4000 do think would be best for this? or should just go for the cleanest one I can find.I did read about some with galvinised bodies,when was that?I like the look of the older twin headlight one but they are hard to come by it seems.
-------------------------------------
Rogviler
Yeah, the quad-rectangle headlights were 1984 only. The good news is that they have the same body panels so you can convert it if you want, which means you can use the headlights from a FWD 4000 or Coupe GT from that year or earlier. I have both and honestly the facelift cars definitely have better light, though neither is as good as tried and true quad-rounds, which is why I put them on my project car.
Otherwise there's no reason to pick one over the other. The 84-85 has slightly different wiring from the 86-87, but with a 20vt I don't think you'll be digging into it as much anyway. If memory serves, there are only a couple wires to splice, unlike the 10vt where you're dealing with half a dozen or so. Years 85-87 did have more creature comforts, like heated seats and trip computer. Nicer interior... That's about all I can think of.
They never did galvanizing on the 4000, unfortunately. I believe they started at the tail end of the 5000's run and then from about 1988 on they galvanized all models. They did however use very good primer and paint, so they generally hold up pretty well. Usual places to check are the rockers, trunk, and rain tray, like most cars. I personally feel that 85+ cars held up better because the extra plastic panels kept more salt and ice buildup away from the body.
Honestly, if you get a car that is in good overall shape you'll likely have less money going to "repair" and more going to "hauling ***". I wouldn't feel bad about ripping out a stock motor that runs good, as they're worth nothing anyway. I can attest that a bad engine probably means the rest of the car wasn't taken care of either.
-Rog
I am busy buying a 4000 manual quattro (have a couple to chose from)
I am new to audis so all advice will be helpfull.
I have been talking to Rogviler on here a bit -
-Quote-
Peter Sask
Rogviler - How much work is swapping a 20vt in to the 4000?
-----------------------
Rogviler
A 20vt isn't too bad. Some things make it easier, like the lack of having to figure out what to do with all the CIS stuff. If you can do one you can do the other. I've had the opportunity to see a few 20vt swaps in person, and I was really surprised with how much better a lot of it fits than the 10vt or even the plain 10v.
On the other hand, the radiator can be a challenge due to the intake manifold being on that side. I generally see people angling the stock one, but I've also seen some more custom stuff that places it in the front or makes it more compact in the stock location.
Running the intake piping is a heck of a lot easier since you don't have to run two different directions with it.
Totally worth the effort though.
-Rog
--------------------------
Peter Sask
Do you think it would be better to keep the 4000 stock transmission(manual) or use a 20vt one?
What Hp will be safe on stock internals.
What kind of modifications to body/engine will be needed to make this work
---------------------------------
Rogviler
I'd stay with the stock transmission myself. It can hold a lot of power, as long as you have a good clutch and pressure plate. If you're going to go way beyond stock with the horsepower then maybe, but I haven't seen too many people worrying about that part of it. If you wanted a 6-speed or something then that's different.
I really don't think there's much you need to change to get it to fit. Pretty much like the 10vt but without chopping stuff to get the CIS airbox in there. You'd still need to move the battery to the trunk, but it isn't as tight so I believe you can forgo the bent tie rod.
I'll admit I don't know as much about the 20vt, so I can't say for sure how much power it can handle, but I do know that all the stock stuff is built for a lot more power on those engines, which is why they're so popular for tuning. Again, I haven't seen too many people worry about the internals, even when going well beyond stock.
I'll try to find a good swap thread for you. Derracuda on Motorgeek has a pretty badass setup, and he's one of the few that takes pictures and explains a lot, but it has to be said that he does a LOT of custom fabrication that isn't going to be necessary on a straight swap.
-Rog
--------------------------------
Peter Sask
What year 4000 do think would be best for this? or should just go for the cleanest one I can find.I did read about some with galvinised bodies,when was that?I like the look of the older twin headlight one but they are hard to come by it seems.
-------------------------------------
Rogviler
Yeah, the quad-rectangle headlights were 1984 only. The good news is that they have the same body panels so you can convert it if you want, which means you can use the headlights from a FWD 4000 or Coupe GT from that year or earlier. I have both and honestly the facelift cars definitely have better light, though neither is as good as tried and true quad-rounds, which is why I put them on my project car.
Otherwise there's no reason to pick one over the other. The 84-85 has slightly different wiring from the 86-87, but with a 20vt I don't think you'll be digging into it as much anyway. If memory serves, there are only a couple wires to splice, unlike the 10vt where you're dealing with half a dozen or so. Years 85-87 did have more creature comforts, like heated seats and trip computer. Nicer interior... That's about all I can think of.
They never did galvanizing on the 4000, unfortunately. I believe they started at the tail end of the 5000's run and then from about 1988 on they galvanized all models. They did however use very good primer and paint, so they generally hold up pretty well. Usual places to check are the rockers, trunk, and rain tray, like most cars. I personally feel that 85+ cars held up better because the extra plastic panels kept more salt and ice buildup away from the body.
Honestly, if you get a car that is in good overall shape you'll likely have less money going to "repair" and more going to "hauling ***". I wouldn't feel bad about ripping out a stock motor that runs good, as they're worth nothing anyway. I can attest that a bad engine probably means the rest of the car wasn't taken care of either.
-Rog
12-24-2012, 12:51 PM
#3
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Great one less thing to worry about!!!
I have read that I can not use an AAN oil pan,Must be one off a 3b or 7a.
Why do they change from AAN cams to 7A cams?
Thanks
I have read that I can not use an AAN oil pan,Must be one off a 3b or 7a.
Why do they change from AAN cams to 7A cams?
Thanks
12-24-2012, 06:02 PM
#4
AudiWorld Senior Member
The oil pan is for fitment, similar to using the JT oil pan in a 10vt swap. I can't say for sure on the cams, but it's likely for the same reasons that one might swap an MC2 cam into an MC1 or KH, which is better power. It's not going to be an absolute must-have though.
BTW, I know you can play around with different intake manifolds and heads to get a better fitment if you need to...
7A:
3B:
AAN:
Of all of them, the AAN is by far the most obtrusive toward where the stock radiator is.
There's actually a 7A local to me, which is a pretty desirable engine to throw a turbo on, but he wants $750, which is a little steep for a junkyard motor.
-Rog
BTW, I know you can play around with different intake manifolds and heads to get a better fitment if you need to...
7A:
3B:
AAN:
Of all of them, the AAN is by far the most obtrusive toward where the stock radiator is.
There's actually a 7A local to me, which is a pretty desirable engine to throw a turbo on, but he wants $750, which is a little steep for a junkyard motor.
-Rog
12-25-2012, 12:35 PM
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12-25-2012, 03:14 PM
#7
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Specifically regarding that question:
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=38671
Sounds like the poster in your link was correct in theory, but it's better to run both as you get added benefits.
Some other interesting info on the topic:
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=47093
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48990
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=44663
(That one has some of the last posts I made on Motorgeek and a pretty good example as to why... "If you're not in the clique, $#%@ off!")
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=42167
That should answer most of your questions about part combos and stuff.
-Rog
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=38671
Sounds like the poster in your link was correct in theory, but it's better to run both as you get added benefits.
Some other interesting info on the topic:
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=47093
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48990
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=44663
(That one has some of the last posts I made on Motorgeek and a pretty good example as to why... "If you're not in the clique, $#%@ off!")
http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=42167
That should answer most of your questions about part combos and stuff.
-Rog