Copied as much QLCC info as I could find for those who are interested. (LONG)
09-01-2004, 02:14 PM
#1
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Copied as much QLCC info as I could find for those who are interested. (LONG)
Q-list,
Here is some history behind the QLCC ECU chip mods that RDH started on the MAC-02 ur-Quattro back in the Fall of 1995. RDH has a web page with
more details on the MAC-02 code he developed. Go to
http://www.tiac.net/users/rdh/http/ for more info.
Many people on the qlist were discussing ECU mods and raising the boost on the Audis, people began looking inside their stock and modified ECU's and discussed which tuner did this, and which tuner did that, resistor mods, fuel pump hard wiring, zener diode mods etc. were discussed. Paul Timmerman of Schrapnel Knobbin fame was also involved in these discussions about raising the boost on the Audi ur-Quattros and on the 5000TQ.
RDH posted some detailed information on the manifold pressure map values from the MAC-02 ECU code on Dec. 12th 1995 which caught my eye. Dave
Lawson had been in contact with RDH during this same period and knew RDH from a previous meeting. RDH developed the software code that would dis-assemble the EPROM code Hexidecimal values from the MAC-02 ECU and match these against the MAC-02 micro-processor (uP) instruction codes or operation codes (op codes).
The EPROM in the ECU contains both data and the actual instructions in a Hexidecimal format (base 16). The actual uP instructions are used to
monitor the engine parameters and then set the timing and fuel (frequency valve duty cycle), monitor engine component operation and issue fault codes etc. RDH spent many hours, days/months?) reverse engineering the data (Maps) portion of the code along with the actual uP instructions. RDH sent me the disassembled listing he had for the MAC-02 code around May 10, 1995 and after doing a quick look and comparison to the MAC11 ECU code (1986-88 5000TQ), I was able to locate the regular
and premium timing maps in the MAC11 code. The Audi Factory Service "1986 new Model information" that I had, shows the MAC11 timing map graph, so finding the timing map values was pretty easy. The timing map values are the first 32 lines of the code in the EPROM and this is where the MAC-02 had its timing map as well.
I posted a note the quattro list indicating that I located this timing info. Dave Lawson had also been working on the MAC11 code previously
and after seeing my post to the qlist, indicated he had also noticed the timing maps and had some other suggestions for some of the other code
locations. Steve Eiche became interested at this same time and had been doing some of his own investigation, Graydon, Scott J. and others became intersted in the code findings as well. On 5/28/96 I announced to the qlist that I found the overboost fuel pump cutout map. I did this by
graphically comparing the MAC11 code to the MAC-02 code which also used this overboost fuel pump cutout feature.
Now it was possible to change the overboost cutout map values and allow running boost above the stock 1.6 bar cutout value,using the stock ECU pressure sensor this overboost cutout could be set up to ~1.95 bar before the fuel pump cut out would occur.
During this same time, RDH had sent me the software code for doing the actual disassembly of the MAC-02 code and I believe Dave Lawson had also begun working with RDH's code to run on his PC. (Dave Lawson, please add any details or corrections where needed). With RDH's help and patience, I was able to get this program to run on my Unix mainframe at work. Unfortunately, not being a software programmer by trade (Electrical
engineering is my bag), I was unable to make much progress modify RDH's program to correctly work with the MAC11 code and accomplish the
disassembly process.
At some point, (Orin help me here) I believe that I sent a copy of RDH's program to Orin up in the Seattle area and this is where the real
progress began on the MAC11 code. Orin modified the RDH program and began reverse engineering the MAC11 code. Orin located the actual "boost
maps" that the ECU uses along with the Waste Gate Solenoid to dynamically adjust the boost above what the Waste Gate Spring pressure can provide.
During this time, I provided some Audi technical information which helped Orin and others with the deciphering process and I also started
doing some on car testing to understand how the map values corresponded with actual engine parameters. Other people on the qlist got involved at the same time and were doing there own work on the code as more and more information became available.
The important thing to note, is that this information was freely spread between 5-6 people who were investigating how the MAC11 ECU worked and had the hardware or software knowledge to futher this investigation. Dave Lawson worked with Scott J. on correlating the K26 Turbo
characteristics and investigated the disassembled listing of the MAC11 code to come up with a modified version of the MAC-ll to work well with this K26 output profile. I was working on the later MAC14 code modifications at the same time to make my 1989 200TQ with the dual knock sensor engine run better and better. I believe Dave Lawsons version of the MAC11 code was spread out amongst several other QLCC list members who agreed to do some low cost EPROM upgrades, Steve Eiche, Dave Lawson, Graydon Stuckey, David Kavanaugh, Steve Buchholz are a few of the people who began offering this service as well as the service I was providing
using my own version of code. In some cases each person made changes to the QLCC code as they did more testing. (If I left anyone off this list,
please correct me)
The QLCC name "Quattro List Chip Club" I believe was coined by Steve Buchholz after I jokingly suggested we put together some sort of chip
club like the "Hair club for Men"
Well, after going through my notes and old email posts that I have, that is how I remember this QLCC thing happening. Other thoughts, with
additions or corrections are most welcomed from other members in this group.
Happy code crunching!
--
Scott Mo.
1989 200TQ
The important thing to note, is that this information was freely spread between 5-6 people who were investigating how the MAC11 ECU worked and had the hardware or software knowledge to futher this investigation.
All very well, but it doesn't explain how useful the QLCC has been to us over here in Europe.
The MB engine fitted to the 1988/9 ur-quattro is essentially a hybrid of the MC-1 and MC-2. Audi didn't build very many, and documented the engine management system _very_ poorly indeed. I started into this business not from a point of wanting things to go better - but from wanting to know how to tell when they weren't going as well as they should.
Scott Mockry said one day that he might be able to help - if he could see the MAC12D's code. I went down to the local scrappers, picked up a MAC12D (perhaps the only spare in the country at the time) for $300 and mailed it off to Scott.
Out of the goodness of his heart and pure charity, Scott took the ROM chip out, put in a socket, dumped the ROM, burnt an EPROM, and sent the lot back. Some little while later, an email of the disassembled source code arrived.
The MAC12D is nothing more than a MAC11 with the emission controls code fairly crudely removed and a few values changed for the ur-quattro implementation.
At present, our side of the project is stalled because:
a) My car has been in the bodyshop for 8 weeks and I can't experiment and
b) I don't have a portable and accurate a/f meter.
We have, though, learned a great deal from Scott's and Orin's input over here. We have managed to explain very convincingly why MB engines are very hard to tweak with satisfactory results. Some of the experts (e.g., Martin at BR Motorsport) already knew this from practical experience, and we've managed to account for the phenomena they observed. The timing and boost maps explain some performance flat spots (one especially) that _should_ prove fairly easy to
fix. We have yet to crack the fuel frequency valve, but we're making progress.
If it hadn't been for the QLCC, I would _never_ (in a month of Sundays) have worked out how the MB's fuel injection system works. I've been sharing the knowledge at club meetings, carrying fuel pressure meters and Scott's wonderful WGFV test light. Without the QLCC, a whole raft of UK MB owners (John Scott, Tony Hill, me, Terry Gee) would still be driving round with sick cars.
--
Phil Payne
UK Audi [ur-]quattro Owners Club
I'm posting the mods to the standard Mac-11C code from my car. I think it works with Mac11B and Mac14 ECUs as well.
This is the readme file I keep with my other files to help me keep things straight. I've been running what is called 1.2 since September '97. It is not clear to me that the increased duty cycle at WOT is necessary (or doing any good), but I felt that a little rich is better. When I get off my but and monitor the O2 sensor, I'll get a better feel for mixture. (Or I could use that thermocouple meter I have to monitor exhaust temp like the big boys do!)
David
PS. I have some other useful info that I started with from Scott M and Orin, but they didn't sent it to the list, so I won't (unless they are OK with it).
-------------------------------------------------------------
Mac11-C modifications:
audi.* = original code
code as dumped from prom.
================================================== ======================
audi10.* = version 1.0 modifications (11/96)
1. modified boost fuel cutoff curve (raised limit to near 1.95 bar).
2. modified desired boost curve (so wastegate will help us get there).
3. modified wastegate modulation based on RPM.
diffs between original and version 1.0:
diff audi.asm audi10.asm
543,544c543,544
< E230: A0 AD B3 C6 CD CD CD CD
< CD CD CD CD CD CD CD CD
---
> E230: A0 AD B3 C6 F4 F8 F8 F8
> F8 F8 F8 F8 F8 F8 F8 F8
740c740
< E408: 86 AD B4 B4 B4 B5 B4 B4
---
> E408: 86 AD E6 E6 E6 E6 D5 CC
764c764
< E444: E6 E6 E6 E6
---
> E444: FF FF E6 E6
5361c5361
< FFE1: FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
---
> FFE1: 00 00 00 CA FF FF FF FF
================================================== ======================
audi20.* = version 2.0 modifications (Under development)
1. increased boost fuel cuttoff to actual 1.95 bar.
2. increased O2 duty cycle for WOT
2. increased desired boost curve so max is 1.90 bar from <3770 - >5180 RPM.
version 1.1 contains 1, 3
version 1.2 contains 1, 2, 3
diffs between version 1.0 and 2.0:
diff audi10.asm audi20.asm
543,544c543,544
< E230: A0 AD B3 C6 F4 F8 F8 F8
< F8 F8 F8 F8 F8 F8 F8 F8
---
> E230: A0 AD B3 C6 F4 FA FA FA
> FA FA FA FA FA FA FA FA
584,585c584,585
< E2D0: 3E 40 42 43 44 44 44 43
< 42 41 40 40 41 44 44 44
---
> E2D0: 3E 40 43 45 47 47 47 46
> 46 45 43 43 45 47 47 47
740c740
< E408: 86 AD E6 E6 E6 E6 D5 CC
---
> E408: 86 AD E6 F7 F7 F7 E6 D5
================================================== ======================
To dis-assemble:
d68c/d68c audi.bin -c audi.ctl -k 8 -o audi.asm
Here is some history behind the QLCC ECU chip mods that RDH started on the MAC-02 ur-Quattro back in the Fall of 1995. RDH has a web page with
more details on the MAC-02 code he developed. Go to
http://www.tiac.net/users/rdh/http/ for more info.
Many people on the qlist were discussing ECU mods and raising the boost on the Audis, people began looking inside their stock and modified ECU's and discussed which tuner did this, and which tuner did that, resistor mods, fuel pump hard wiring, zener diode mods etc. were discussed. Paul Timmerman of Schrapnel Knobbin fame was also involved in these discussions about raising the boost on the Audi ur-Quattros and on the 5000TQ.
RDH posted some detailed information on the manifold pressure map values from the MAC-02 ECU code on Dec. 12th 1995 which caught my eye. Dave
Lawson had been in contact with RDH during this same period and knew RDH from a previous meeting. RDH developed the software code that would dis-assemble the EPROM code Hexidecimal values from the MAC-02 ECU and match these against the MAC-02 micro-processor (uP) instruction codes or operation codes (op codes).
The EPROM in the ECU contains both data and the actual instructions in a Hexidecimal format (base 16). The actual uP instructions are used to
monitor the engine parameters and then set the timing and fuel (frequency valve duty cycle), monitor engine component operation and issue fault codes etc. RDH spent many hours, days/months?) reverse engineering the data (Maps) portion of the code along with the actual uP instructions. RDH sent me the disassembled listing he had for the MAC-02 code around May 10, 1995 and after doing a quick look and comparison to the MAC11 ECU code (1986-88 5000TQ), I was able to locate the regular
and premium timing maps in the MAC11 code. The Audi Factory Service "1986 new Model information" that I had, shows the MAC11 timing map graph, so finding the timing map values was pretty easy. The timing map values are the first 32 lines of the code in the EPROM and this is where the MAC-02 had its timing map as well.
I posted a note the quattro list indicating that I located this timing info. Dave Lawson had also been working on the MAC11 code previously
and after seeing my post to the qlist, indicated he had also noticed the timing maps and had some other suggestions for some of the other code
locations. Steve Eiche became interested at this same time and had been doing some of his own investigation, Graydon, Scott J. and others became intersted in the code findings as well. On 5/28/96 I announced to the qlist that I found the overboost fuel pump cutout map. I did this by
graphically comparing the MAC11 code to the MAC-02 code which also used this overboost fuel pump cutout feature.
Now it was possible to change the overboost cutout map values and allow running boost above the stock 1.6 bar cutout value,using the stock ECU pressure sensor this overboost cutout could be set up to ~1.95 bar before the fuel pump cut out would occur.
During this same time, RDH had sent me the software code for doing the actual disassembly of the MAC-02 code and I believe Dave Lawson had also begun working with RDH's code to run on his PC. (Dave Lawson, please add any details or corrections where needed). With RDH's help and patience, I was able to get this program to run on my Unix mainframe at work. Unfortunately, not being a software programmer by trade (Electrical
engineering is my bag), I was unable to make much progress modify RDH's program to correctly work with the MAC11 code and accomplish the
disassembly process.
At some point, (Orin help me here) I believe that I sent a copy of RDH's program to Orin up in the Seattle area and this is where the real
progress began on the MAC11 code. Orin modified the RDH program and began reverse engineering the MAC11 code. Orin located the actual "boost
maps" that the ECU uses along with the Waste Gate Solenoid to dynamically adjust the boost above what the Waste Gate Spring pressure can provide.
During this time, I provided some Audi technical information which helped Orin and others with the deciphering process and I also started
doing some on car testing to understand how the map values corresponded with actual engine parameters. Other people on the qlist got involved at the same time and were doing there own work on the code as more and more information became available.
The important thing to note, is that this information was freely spread between 5-6 people who were investigating how the MAC11 ECU worked and had the hardware or software knowledge to futher this investigation. Dave Lawson worked with Scott J. on correlating the K26 Turbo
characteristics and investigated the disassembled listing of the MAC11 code to come up with a modified version of the MAC-ll to work well with this K26 output profile. I was working on the later MAC14 code modifications at the same time to make my 1989 200TQ with the dual knock sensor engine run better and better. I believe Dave Lawsons version of the MAC11 code was spread out amongst several other QLCC list members who agreed to do some low cost EPROM upgrades, Steve Eiche, Dave Lawson, Graydon Stuckey, David Kavanaugh, Steve Buchholz are a few of the people who began offering this service as well as the service I was providing
using my own version of code. In some cases each person made changes to the QLCC code as they did more testing. (If I left anyone off this list,
please correct me)
The QLCC name "Quattro List Chip Club" I believe was coined by Steve Buchholz after I jokingly suggested we put together some sort of chip
club like the "Hair club for Men"
Well, after going through my notes and old email posts that I have, that is how I remember this QLCC thing happening. Other thoughts, with
additions or corrections are most welcomed from other members in this group.
Happy code crunching!
--
Scott Mo.
1989 200TQ
The important thing to note, is that this information was freely spread between 5-6 people who were investigating how the MAC11 ECU worked and had the hardware or software knowledge to futher this investigation.
All very well, but it doesn't explain how useful the QLCC has been to us over here in Europe.
The MB engine fitted to the 1988/9 ur-quattro is essentially a hybrid of the MC-1 and MC-2. Audi didn't build very many, and documented the engine management system _very_ poorly indeed. I started into this business not from a point of wanting things to go better - but from wanting to know how to tell when they weren't going as well as they should.
Scott Mockry said one day that he might be able to help - if he could see the MAC12D's code. I went down to the local scrappers, picked up a MAC12D (perhaps the only spare in the country at the time) for $300 and mailed it off to Scott.
Out of the goodness of his heart and pure charity, Scott took the ROM chip out, put in a socket, dumped the ROM, burnt an EPROM, and sent the lot back. Some little while later, an email of the disassembled source code arrived.
The MAC12D is nothing more than a MAC11 with the emission controls code fairly crudely removed and a few values changed for the ur-quattro implementation.
At present, our side of the project is stalled because:
a) My car has been in the bodyshop for 8 weeks and I can't experiment and
b) I don't have a portable and accurate a/f meter.
We have, though, learned a great deal from Scott's and Orin's input over here. We have managed to explain very convincingly why MB engines are very hard to tweak with satisfactory results. Some of the experts (e.g., Martin at BR Motorsport) already knew this from practical experience, and we've managed to account for the phenomena they observed. The timing and boost maps explain some performance flat spots (one especially) that _should_ prove fairly easy to
fix. We have yet to crack the fuel frequency valve, but we're making progress.
If it hadn't been for the QLCC, I would _never_ (in a month of Sundays) have worked out how the MB's fuel injection system works. I've been sharing the knowledge at club meetings, carrying fuel pressure meters and Scott's wonderful WGFV test light. Without the QLCC, a whole raft of UK MB owners (John Scott, Tony Hill, me, Terry Gee) would still be driving round with sick cars.
--
Phil Payne
UK Audi [ur-]quattro Owners Club
I'm posting the mods to the standard Mac-11C code from my car. I think it works with Mac11B and Mac14 ECUs as well.
This is the readme file I keep with my other files to help me keep things straight. I've been running what is called 1.2 since September '97. It is not clear to me that the increased duty cycle at WOT is necessary (or doing any good), but I felt that a little rich is better. When I get off my but and monitor the O2 sensor, I'll get a better feel for mixture. (Or I could use that thermocouple meter I have to monitor exhaust temp like the big boys do!)
David
PS. I have some other useful info that I started with from Scott M and Orin, but they didn't sent it to the list, so I won't (unless they are OK with it).
-------------------------------------------------------------
Mac11-C modifications:
audi.* = original code
code as dumped from prom.
================================================== ======================
audi10.* = version 1.0 modifications (11/96)
1. modified boost fuel cutoff curve (raised limit to near 1.95 bar).
2. modified desired boost curve (so wastegate will help us get there).
3. modified wastegate modulation based on RPM.
diffs between original and version 1.0:
diff audi.asm audi10.asm
543,544c543,544
< E230: A0 AD B3 C6 CD CD CD CD
< CD CD CD CD CD CD CD CD
---
> E230: A0 AD B3 C6 F4 F8 F8 F8
> F8 F8 F8 F8 F8 F8 F8 F8
740c740
< E408: 86 AD B4 B4 B4 B5 B4 B4
---
> E408: 86 AD E6 E6 E6 E6 D5 CC
764c764
< E444: E6 E6 E6 E6
---
> E444: FF FF E6 E6
5361c5361
< FFE1: FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
---
> FFE1: 00 00 00 CA FF FF FF FF
================================================== ======================
audi20.* = version 2.0 modifications (Under development)
1. increased boost fuel cuttoff to actual 1.95 bar.
2. increased O2 duty cycle for WOT
2. increased desired boost curve so max is 1.90 bar from <3770 - >5180 RPM.
version 1.1 contains 1, 3
version 1.2 contains 1, 2, 3
diffs between version 1.0 and 2.0:
diff audi10.asm audi20.asm
543,544c543,544
< E230: A0 AD B3 C6 F4 F8 F8 F8
< F8 F8 F8 F8 F8 F8 F8 F8
---
> E230: A0 AD B3 C6 F4 FA FA FA
> FA FA FA FA FA FA FA FA
584,585c584,585
< E2D0: 3E 40 42 43 44 44 44 43
< 42 41 40 40 41 44 44 44
---
> E2D0: 3E 40 43 45 47 47 47 46
> 46 45 43 43 45 47 47 47
740c740
< E408: 86 AD E6 E6 E6 E6 D5 CC
---
> E408: 86 AD E6 F7 F7 F7 E6 D5
================================================== ======================
To dis-assemble:
d68c/d68c audi.bin -c audi.ctl -k 8 -o audi.asm
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