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Considering RS3 as DD, few questions...

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Considering RS3 as DD, few questions...

 
Old 01-02-2019, 07:39 AM
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Default Considering RS3 as DD, few questions...

Haven't had an Audi for a couple yrs, so feeling the need to scratch the itch. And also tired of my ponderous lethargic current DD, a '17 GLE43 Coupe. I want something fairly small and nimble now, but need the 4 doors as I occasionally have to pick up/drop off my two small children.

There are no local RS3s for me to test, unfortunately, so was curious how many of you compared it with an S3 back to back, and what your thoughts were? Anything else you cross shopped, like the M2 (I had an M4 a couple yrs ago which I never really liked)?

Thanks!
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:03 PM
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I shopped the RS3. Great car, just didn't want to part with that much cash. I found that a 3-4 grand thrown at a nice used S3 will give you stock RS3 performance at half-price. That's what I ended up doing anyway. If they had had the RS3 available as I wanted it for european delivery when I asked for it I would have got the RS3, but now glad they didn't come through. I also shopped M2, but it just feels cheaper to me somehow, nobody was budging on price and I like AWD. Same issue with non-availability when I wanted for euro delivery on the M2. First try at a 0-60 in the S3 without launch control, a passenger and slightly uphill still got 3.6 seconds (this fairly recently). My first Audi was a 5000S (manual, Quattro) too. Also had a 99/01/02 A4 and still have the R8 which is slower than the S3

Last edited by Spinnetti; 01-02-2019 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:32 PM
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I had the opportunity to take out both the S3 and RS3 on a road trip nearly back to back. I did at least 250 miles in either one on the typical roads I drive, including fun twisty mountain/canyon roads. Stock for stock, the RS3 is faster once you push it and sounds better, but other than that in more normal driving you'll be hard pressed to notice much of a difference. There's a YouTuber who made a video a while back after he took delivery of his RS3 and decided to sell it a week later, because it didn't live up to his expectations. He owned an S3 prior to that and his main complaint was that the RS3 just isn't faster in regular driving until you push it and wind it out to redline, but his point was that's not how he drives on a daily basis, so for most of his driving it didn't drive any different than his prior S3. He got kinda ripped a new one over that video by many posters, but after I had the chance to drive both, I fully understood where he came from. This is a complaint that I have about the current RS models in general. They just don't offer much of a unique experience over their S siblings. I currently own a '13 RS5 as my DD and the reason I like it is because the engine and driving experience has more in common with the R8 than the S5. Driving that high revving V8 is just a very different driving experience compared to the supercharged V6 and worth every penny. The current RS models are largely just faster S models, but generally offer the same driving experience and you can't really tell that you are driving an RS when just driving around normally. The RS3 and TTRS at least still have a unique engine, but both the I4 turbo and I5 turbo have too much turbo lag for my taste. I'm not a friend of small turbo engines, because they have no oomph off boost, so you always have that power hole after getting on the throttle, followed by a disproportional power surge. The M2 Competition is an interesting proposition. It's clearly much more of a drivers car and it now has the same engine as the M4. I liked the M4, but ultimately as a complete package it was lacking for me, and I currently have a '19 C63 S Coupe on order for European Delivery at the beginning of May. It still offers the kind of unique driving experience over its lower siblings that I so like about my RS5 and still has a V8.

Last edited by superswiss; 01-02-2019 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 01-03-2019, 06:57 AM
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Thanks for the input guys. I don't need a super well handling high revving car for my DD, I Have the .2 3RS for that, mainly want a sporty nimble cruiser for my daily commute (30 miles each way on mostly highway/rural rds). Not being a young buck anymore, though, I'm used to my heated massaging seats lol, so I'm thinking I may have to go RS5 or wait for the new S6 or RS6?
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Old 01-03-2019, 02:57 PM
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No advice on cross-shopping as I was actually there testing a q7 when i test drove the s3 but no regrets--fell in love with it for the same reason you want one. 4 and 7 year olds need hauling, and i like "spirited" driving and having a small vehicle is great for picking up some cramped parking spaces in downtown ramps. More than fast enough and handles snow and ice great for a low car. (winter/summer wheels for me--no all seasons). We ended up with a win win situation as my wife got a new Outback and I got the s3 instead of me staying in my super practical but insanely boring impreza (i've never hated driving more in my life than in that thing) and she getting a large lux suv. I mean she wanted the outback to begin with but i hated my subaru so much i was resisting the idea of getting another one, even if she was driving it most of the time.

i love launching it on the on-ramps and hearing my kids yell "do it again!".
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Old 01-03-2019, 09:02 PM
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Test drove both S3 and RS3 -
  • MY 17 and newer S3 have next to nothing turbo lag. The EA888 engine is legendary and the turbo lag is very little only from 70+ mph. The used car market for S3 is surprisedly hot because of what is mentioned with bolt ons.
  • The RS3 has turbo lag. However when the turbo kicks in holy #$&@
  • If you like naturally aspirated engines you wonít be happy with the RS3, although Audi has done such a good job with removing turbo lag from the S3 you just might be happy with that
  • Youíll be hard pressed to find a RS3 without a factory order in 2019, S3 are easier.
  • Iím going to disagree with superswissís point regarding S/RS - RS will have upgraded internals, software, and a different engine from either Audi or from a member of the VAG group (usually Porche). This is huge when we all care what happens when we drive. Subjectively, RSís are like discount porches to some extent. That being said S cars drive very different than RS cars.
  • If you like discounts on cars stay away from the RS model line. Audi limits production of a mass produced car to give the perception that its exclusive and rare. Itís not. They do keep demand higher than supply.
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by chicago_marketing View Post
  • I’m going to disagree with superswiss’s point regarding S/RS - RS will have upgraded internals, software, and a different engine from either Audi or from a member of the VAG group (usually Porche). This is huge when we all care what happens when we drive. Subjectively, RS’s are like discount porches to some extent. That being said S cars drive very different than RS cars.






Yes, RS have upgraded internals to cope with the higher output and they do have differently tuned software for things like ESP. Much of that only makes a difference if you drive it close to the limits, which a lot of folks don't really do or don't have the opportunity to do. So then it comes down to how much a difference can be felt during normal driving and that's where the current RS models feel too close to their S siblings, IMO. This is based on my experience driving them all for extended periods. The RS3 and TTRS at least do have a unique engine that gives them a unique character, but if you move up the line up, the RS brand is being diluted. The 2.9TT shares the block and many parts with the 3.0T in the S4/5. It has a smaller bore, which makes it a 2.9 instead of a 3.0 and it gets a second turbo, but something like 80-90% are shared. Also contrary to popular believes it's a mostly Audi developed engine donated to Porsche for the Panamera S, not the other way around, and the all-new upcoming S6/7 will get the same 2.9TT engine. Having the RS5 share the engine with the S6 and S7 doesn't quite sit right with me. Just makes the RS5 a baby S6/7. Due to the cost cutting at VAG, Audi is currently in charge of the V6 developments and Porsche handles the V8s. There's currently no Audi with a Porsche engine. Calling RS models baby Porsches is quit a stretch. They share nothing with a Porsche. The all-new RS6 and RS7 may get a Porsche V8, but they could also get a higher output version of the 2.9TT. Nothing has been leaked or confirmed yet. I would be exited again about the RS brand if they were in fact baby Porsches. Nothing would make me more interested again than Porsche donating their engines and PDK to Audi, but as it stands, RS models have Audi or VW engines, are built on Audi or VW platforms, and have VW or ZF transmissions.

As for turbo lag, the 2.0T does have turbo lag despite everybody trying to say otherwise. I've driven this engine in so many incarnations all the way up to the current ones and they lag. I happened to drive the S3 at 9000ft elevation for example and it was horrible. It required disproportional throttle input just to get off the line, and then it was met with a huge power surge once the turbo spooled up. I had to explain to my passengers that I'm not trying to drag race from stop light to stop light and that it is the car making it very difficult to start smoothly. Once the turbo is spooling, its fine. But even at sea level where I live there is lag from a stop and from off throttle. Since I DD a naturally aspirated engine and am used to the immediate response, any lag is quite noticeable.

Last edited by superswiss; 01-04-2019 at 02:58 AM.
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:11 AM
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Great discussion. Wish I had an RS3 around here I could test drive. Swung by local Audi dealer, they have a couple RS5 SBs coming in from port I'll test drive one in a couple weeks and see. Kind of bloated specs, though, 95k stickers. The new S6 will also have the same 2.9TT engine as the RS5 correct? And I would imagine the car wouldn't be that much heavier than the 4k lb RS5. I may just wait for that if it ends up being similar in price to the RS5 SB, which is likely. Decisions decisions...

I don't mind turbo lag, but I probably wouldn't tune/flash the car and make it worse either. I do really like the idea of a "bespoke" engine in the TTRS/RS3 cars.

Last edited by Juggernaut; 01-04-2019 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:04 PM
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superswiss: I don't find the S3 to have any turbo lag. I think what you are experiencing is a software lag. The throttle and transmission programming really conspire against you. Drives me nuts, but its not the turbo IMO. TCU tune and Sprintbooster type thing for the throttle programming should help. I did the TCU, now need to try a throttle pedal remap. I'm sure driving at altitude exacerbates the lag that is there, and drivability in general so could be true in your location but I don't see it here at sea level.
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:44 AM
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I test drove the rs3 back to back with the s3 while shopping around. Drove the RS3 then the S3 and then the RS3 again because I couldnt get enough of it. I put a deposit down that day. The RS3 is a much more special feeling car. The S3 to me feels like any quick small sedan (honestly I fealt like there were better options than the s3 for less money...). Easy to whip around but not much soul to it. I got my RS3 at I think around 6% off msrp and a super low finance rate and with that alone if I sell my car right now I pretty much break even even though ive driven nearly 6000 miles. The RS3s are holding their value much better than S3s right now. If you can get an RS3, get it!
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