Drove an R8 V10 Spyder, impressions. - AudiWorld Forums

Go Back  AudiWorld Forums > Audi Models > Audi A3 / S3 /RS 3 > Audi A3 / S3 / RS3
Reload this Page >

Drove an R8 V10 Spyder, impressions.

Notices
Audi A3 / S3 / RS3 Discussion forum for the 8L and 8P Audi A3 S3 and RS3
Sponsored by: Audi Online Parts

Drove an R8 V10 Spyder, impressions.

Reply

 
 
 
Old 07-11-2018, 09:00 AM
  #1  
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 91
Default Drove an R8 V10 Spyder, impressions.

I had a chance to get some seat time in a 2017 R8 V10 Spyder yesterday. I'm still confused by the experience. The Spyder weighs slightly more than the RS3. Up about 130HP and 50TQ. These numbers don't seem like a huge upgrade from RS3's numbers, but it felt like i was driving a spaceship vs. a Corolla (with all due respect to Corolla drivers).

My RS3 is up 100HP and 50TQ from my previous car (Mitsu Evo X MR) , so a very similar upgrade path. But the experience is so very different. RS3 feels clearly faster, but felt like an incremental upgrade. Whereas with the R8, it felt like I made a jump to 2x the HP and TQ, which isn't the case. 0-60 times between the Audis are only off by 2 or 3 tenths, whereas the RS3 improves by almost a full second over the Evo.

V10 is NA, so I thought TQ came later in the band, but the car clearly feels 2x punchier at 2.5-4K RPM. I know it's double the displacement, but the output numbers don't match my "butt dyno". Maybe it was the engine noise that made it feel faster? Gearing? Transmission mapping? This was all on public roads, so I didn't go past highway speeds

Before you say anything, yes, I know the R8 is 3-4x the price. lol.

Last edited by vassili_z; 07-11-2018 at 09:03 AM.
vassili_z is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2018, 03:04 PM
  #2  
AudiWorld Super User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 4,559
Default

The torque and horsepower relationship is widely misunderstood from my experience. Most only focus on engine torque. You've already hit on it. One of the main difference is gearing. Engine torque isn't the whole story. Wheel torque is and wheel torque can be easily manipulated with gearing. Use a longer lever and you yourself can apply more force to an object without increasing your muscle power. Same idea with transmissions. The engine torque and power is a given, but gearing influences the wheel torque. The V10 with its much wider rev band and a redline of 8500 can use much more aggressive gearing and stay in the lower gear longer to make the car produce higher wheel torque and make it move much faster. That combined with the immediate throttle response of an NA engine makes the R8 a very very different experience from the RS3. It's pretty much like night and day. A high revving NA engine is by far the most exhilarating thing to drive. That's why I still can't let my 2013 RS5 go. It's the R8 experience in a more usable body. The R8 V10 Plus is even more bonkers as it uses shorter gears and has more power. I drive an R8 V10 Spyder and R8 V10 Plus regularly and it's a level on its own, although I prefer my RS5 in the canyons as the quattro system combined with the active torque vectoring from the sport differential in the RS5 is better than the system in the R8.

BTW, 0-60 is also overrated. The times are "close" because it's not enough room for the R8 to start going properly. Once you have the V10 in it's sweet spot, it will leave the RS3 in the dust big time. Turbo charged engines have an advantage off the line, that's why they usually have pretty impressive 0-60 times, but once you are beyond 60 it's a different story.

Here's an excellent video that explains the physics and why horsepower matters more for acceleration than engine torque.


Last edited by superswiss; 07-11-2018 at 03:13 PM.
superswiss is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 05:03 AM
  #3  
Audiworld Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 91
Default

Originally Posted by superswiss View Post
The torque and horsepower relationship is widely misunderstood from my experience. Most only focus on engine torque. You've already hit on it. One of the main difference is gearing. Engine torque isn't the whole story. Wheel torque is and wheel torque can be easily manipulated with gearing. Use a longer lever and you yourself can apply more force to an object without increasing your muscle power. Same idea with transmissions. The engine torque and power is a given, but gearing influences the wheel torque. The V10 with its much wider rev band and a redline of 8500 can use much more aggressive gearing and stay in the lower gear longer to make the car produce higher wheel torque and make it move much faster.
Thanks for the explanation. Why didn't audi get more aggressive with RS3 gearing? Drivability and lower redline?
vassili_z is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 07:44 AM
  #4  
AudiWorld Super User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 4,559
Default

Originally Posted by vassili_z View Post
Thanks for the explanation. Why didn't audi get more aggressive with RS3 gearing? Drivability and lower redline?
Yes lower redline, narrower rev band and different power band. Turbo engines or forced induction engines in general are making their torque and power in the low to mid range, so a turbo engine generally revs much lower on average and in order to still get the speed it needs to use taller gearing. Gearing is always a trade off between speed and wheel torque. The faster the engine revs the shorter gears you can use to get the speed. There are some high revving turbo engines like the McLaren and others, but the ones Audi uses are mostly about low to mid range torque. The benefit that a lot of people like is that you don't need to rev the engine high to get it moving. They are easier to drive fast in daily situations, but less interesting IMO. An R8 needs to be revved high to really get going, but that's part of the fun.

Also, understand that the reason we have gears is because internal combustion engines have small power bands where they operate most efficiently, so we need gears in order to keep the engine in the part of the rev band where the power is made, but in order to still reach highway speeds and higher we have to use gears. Contrast that with electric cars. An electric motor makes instant torque the moment you step on it and they can rev really high. The motor in a Tesla revs somewhere around 20,000 rpm at full speed, so electric cars only need one "gear". In order for the car to go faster they just need to rev the motor faster and since it has a very wide power band, that's not an issue at all.

Last edited by superswiss; 07-12-2018 at 08:29 AM.
superswiss is offline  
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Jason Teller
Audi News Forum
0
10-11-2008 09:14 PM
Tanner
Audi R8
2
10-03-2008 10:15 PM
Tanner
Canadian Discussion
6
09-20-2008 07:20 PM
dloftis
Off-topic Discussion
7
07-13-2004 01:32 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Drove an R8 V10 Spyder, impressions.


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: