notawagon

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/23341/vr6_engine_276hp.jpg"></center><p>
Is it possible this will be the engine for the S3 when we get it? This engine currently developes 276hp and is in production in the 2006 Passat. It has already been heavily rumored it will easily be increased without a turbo to 300hp when drafted for the rumored US-bound VW R36 as a 2007 model. The current 2006 R32 available in Europe but not in the US uses the same 3.2 V6 used in the A3 3.2 developing 247-250hp. Since the VW Golf platform GLI and GTI also borrow the Audi A4/A3 2.0T engine, it does seem technically and financially logical and possible this will be "cloned" for the S3. Now the money question comes up. If a fully loaded A3 250hp 3.2 S-line with DSG lists for about $40K in the US, and the rumors say the R36 may come here about this time next year as a 2007 for the mid to upper $30s, how much more above $40K will the S3 be priced? If it is priced at $45K, does that mean it will list for almost $10K more than the R36? These are fully loaded prices for comparison. Would it be worth the premium with the same 300hp VR6 engine, hardware, and Golf platform? Will Audi try to out perform the R36 with a turbo engine with even more hp and at a higher cost? If VW gives us a 300hp R36 in the mid to upper $30s, it could be a great bargain. Assuming VW easily ups the ante with the 300hp VR6 R36, how soon until Audi responds? If you have any doubt the R36 is coming, VW was not bringing the previous R32 to the US until customer demand changed their minds. That car went on to sell over 14,000 units and Audi had nothing to compete. Let's hope the Audi and VW marketing people continue to counterpunch for our benefit. It should be interesting to see this time next year.

April

there are usually features in the Audi that aren't found in the VW. So between options and standard stuff, I'm guessing there will be reasons a person could want one or the other.

If the S3 starts in the low $40K range, and tops out around $45K (within realm of possibility given pricing of other models), that should be a reasonable number. After all, back in '99/'00, the S4 only came with 250hp, and was priced between $39K and $45K.

One big thing will be that the R36 is a 2 door. For some folks that will be a plus. For others it will not. The S3 is expected to come here in 4 door form.

Drillslinger

I hope not... I REALLY want to see a high output 2.0T in the S3.

notawagon

To keep things even I would guess an R36 candidate would cross-shop a 3.2 S-line (both cars with 18s) until there was an S3 with the same engine. These would be the biggest car enthusiasts looking for the highest levels of performance for the buck. They don't care which cars are easier to park in tight spaces. Both cars share the same Golf platform, DSG, Quattro/4-motion, etc... If they were both offered here in 3 and 5 door form, there is not much difference. It looks like the 300hp R36 will be here first and will compete for a while against only the A3 3.2 S-line. I'm sure many enthusiasts will opt for an extra 50hp for about $5k less. They may not get the twin skylights and some other goodies, but 50hp is a big difference in a non-turbo car. Think how much more an enthusiast would have to spend to increase their A3 3.2 an additional 50hp. Assuming the pending S3 will not come here for several months after the R36, the R36 will be the hottest Golf. The R36 does not compare to a base 3.2. This is all good. This is not to bash Audi. It means we will all win as VW and Audi marketers up the ante.

April

So despite the sporty appearance of 2 doors, the really hard core folks usually opt for 4 doors. Sure, the average person is going to look at horsepower per dollar count, but despite usually carrying a few extra pounds, the lunatic fringe wants the stiffer chassis;-)

Look at E36 M3s for example.

qfrog@work

software &amp; cams will do that just fine.

Mark Sirota

I disagree; in my experience (15 years autocrossing nationally), two door cars are usually preferred by enthusiasts -- lighter weight, and in many cases sportier packaging (better motor/suspension options).

I'm not well plugged into the E36 M3 scene, but all the top autocrossers in that car had two doors.

In the A2-chassis VW, the top car was the very rare Wolfsburg Jetta, which was a two-door car. Stiffer than the GTI thanks to the notchback form factor, and lighter.

April

4 doors are often taller than 2 doors, which is another factor I'm sure you're aware of.

The Sportback not only has the weight of extra door stampings, but is longer too. In QTR cars, this can make it easier to rotate the rear end. Try to hang out the tail on an A4 and A6, and you'll find the A6 does it better. So it depends how you want to drive it.

Just have to take a box and cut 4 equal small sized holes then try to twist. Then take same box and cut 2 large holes in either side, then flex.

If I can dig up the torsinal deflection rates of each, I'll be glad to share them.

Timmay

very few e36 4-door M3s were made however

Timmay

well balanced and great performance cars..especially the venerable M series. I can't wait to see the V8 powered M3!