ROW: Thoughts on the 2020 S5 facelift going diesel??
 

Just read the news that the upcoming S4/5 will be getting a 3.0TDI ... granted this announcement only applies to the EU market at the moment, but I’m still curious what everyone’s thoughts are on this change, especially if it represents the future of Audi sport...

positives look to be:
+5mpg
over 500 ft/lb torque
electric turbo for less lag

negatives look to be:
potentially questionable shift in power delivery dynamics
somehow slower (apparently weight related)
cant imagine it will sound all that great

What do you guys think, and how would you feel if this was your only option in the future?

Very curious to hear Audi’s rational for going TDI in the S4/5’s, given diesel-gate, and ....why? Just why?
Could it be because of the EU’s aggressive emissions/consumption requirements???
I seriously thought it was a prank when I read it.

The announcements say about 350HP and 450lbft or better. On paper, it should accelerate like a bat outta hell, even with a little more weight. Maybe all the thrust is much higher on the tach. What gives??
For Audi enthusiasts, I'm still hoping it’s a joke.

Trade-off is unacceptable.

What the hell were they thinking. The ability for an engine to sing properly is not negotiable. And only +5mpg? lol.

If they want to exploit the enviro-freaks, they should have go the Panamera e-Hybrid route.

I have zero interest in driving a diesel engined car. ZERO!

I remember when the Big 2 German brands brought diesel’s into the US. It was post “Gas Shortages” and diesel was cheaper than gas. So many people bought the diesels to save money. That didn’t last long and very quickly, diesel got more expensive than gasoline.

As far as cleaner burning — I cannot tolerate being behind a diesel vehicle. Between the soot and smell, I will pass them as soon as it’s safe to do so.
This is my OPINION — if you feel differently, you can post your opinion just don’t try to “convert” me to your opinion.

— John

The US version isn't going diesel, so this discussion is moot for those in North America.

I loved my A6 TDI for the 4+ years I had it and would certainly consider a TDI S5 if offered in the US.

Because by the end of next year they have to hit a European fleet (sales) target average of 95gm/km CO2. Which is 57.4 mpg (US). That is the AVERAGE over all cars sold. The fines for being over the average are massive.

And it appears the 3.0TFSI twin-scroll turbocharged engine in the S4/S5 is using as much fuel as the 2.9TFSI twin turbocharged version in the RS models when tested under the new WLTP/RDE testing procedure required under Euro 6D certification - a substantial increase over the previous NEDC based test procedure (quite similar to what the EPA still use). Perhaps the Audi engineers trying to be too clever gaming the system, and have been caught out. But they are all getting caught out. BMW, by example, have pulled the G30 M550i xDrive from Europe, you can only buy a M550d xDrive - 6 cylinder diesel with about 15 sequential turbochargers.

The latest Euro 6D-temp diesels are cleaner than gasoline engined cars. More importantly, many governments in Europe have an initial purchase and annual tax structure related to CO2, which disadvantages gasoline relative to diesel - diesel is inherently more efficient at converting carbon based fuels to energy. So many people are still buying them, although the ratio has changed in the last 3 years.

The B9 A4/A5 have always been available in Europe with the 3.0TDI engine, around 272hp but with 600Nm of torque - the same as the RS5. You can buy it with the Sport differential, S Sport seats, adaptive suspension, etc. You don't get the bigger brakes, you don't get as stiff a suspension tune, and you don't get quad exhausts or silver mirrors. It was within a couple of thousand to the S model price when specced this way.

This is a new engine spec being used in diesel S4/S5. It has already been released in the SQ5. And is also being used in the C8 S6/S7 in Europe. It makes use of a 48V system to drive an electric compressor which provides additional power and torque, not just at start off, but anywhere in the rev range. It will possibly prove okay in the S4/S5, as it should have excellent throttle response. It also produces 700Nm of torque - so rolling acceleration is going to be strong, stronger than the gasoline car I would think. But it is an S car (not an SUV), and diesel is not the first choice.

Where Audi are really going to lose sales in Europe is with the S6 and S7 models - as they are using the same engine in the same spec as in an S4/S5. And substantially less performance than the BMW M550D or the Mercedes-AMG E53 which are its direct competitors.

Whilst the S models only account for around 6 to 7% of global sales, to arrive at this situation suggests an organisation in panic, with some senior management issues. Not just in Audi, in VAG. There is no point speculating externally on how exciting your EV portfolio will be in 5 years time, and gloating internally on how much money you will make charging the punters for connected services subscriptions, when your sales start tanking with immediate effect. Pity, wish Ferdinand Piëch would come back and sort them out.

Can anyone who has owned a higher powered diesel provide their thoughts on how power is delivered, and it’s viability as a PERFORMANCE power plant?

I’ve never owned a diesel so I’m really quite unsure how they are to drive HARD. The only time I’ve ever driven a diesel was an EU spec Ford Focus turbo diesel when I briefly lived in Switzerland, I rented it for 2 weeks to drive down to Italy... it was amazing in terms of gas mileage (I was getting 60+ mpg) but I didn’t even consider its performance becuase it clearly wasn’t designed as such...

I’ve always appreciated the benefits of diesel engines from their mileage/efficiency, and torque generation... so I’m all for them in an suv/truck/small efficient car... but for a mid size performance vehicle... how much different will it be to hoon around? I’m sure low end torque will be nice, but won’t it struggle to generate power in the same snappy way that a petrol engine does?

But, then again, the R10 TDI le mans car was a mfvckin legend and absolutely slayed the 24hrs over and over again... so maybe it’s really not all that bad?

IITS

An electric S-car is far more likely in the US than a diesel, so I see this as only a stopgap solution. A diesel Audi has approximately 0% chance of ever being sold in the US, so in the event that there were no suitable gas or electric powertrains, the S4/S5 would be withdrawn from this market. Although it will be very fast off the line, I don't think a low-revving diesel fits the character of an S or RS car.

Do you know the story behind Mark Del Rosso's (President of AoA) termination?