markcincinnati

Well, here we are at level 3 snow emergency -- what to do what to do? Watch TV of course -- hey, new episode of Car & Driver TV -- featuring a test of the VW Toureg.

The implication was that for $45K you could have a "maxed out" V8 6spd auto, trick suspension, 19" wheels and tires, leather lined, bla bla bla Luxury, Sport Utility -- that actually has all three: Lux, Sport and off road ability.

OK, no homage -- not even one little bit -- paid to the allroad. I kinda understand -- but it seems that the V8 is the Audi A8 310 HP 4.2, the air suspension is an extrapolation of the allroad's and the lux touches come from the Audi division.

Now, it is $5K less (sticker) than my 03 allroad 2.7T w/ 6spd manual and all options.

I still love my allroad -- and perhaps the Toureg in year one would a: have problems and b: be sold at full MSRP. But TODAY, only based on the Car and Driver TV show -- if my allroad and the Toureg were side by side at full list price -- wouldn't most people go for the VW?

Then if you put the V8 allroad (at its even higer price) side by side with the VW, wouldn't the allroad with its 5spd tip, and $10k disadvantage be even less likely to win (perhaps with the exception of the die hard Audi fans)?

My wife, says to me, "that's less than your V6 allroad -- and the way Csaba (?) is talking about the VW -- with the V8 -- it sounds like it is "better" than the allroad. She continued, is this smart marketing -- sell more VW's by making the allroad look less attractive?"

She has a point.

Finman

they had it at the Detroit show...as I remember, base price was around $45 or so...but loaded was over $50...

Mallroad

I spent some time considering a fully-loaded Passat or an A4 and the differences (fit and finish being the biggest) were palpable. To me an Audi's level of comfort and finish is worth the difference in price.

As many people on this forum tend to freak out whenever their car squeaks or rattles slightly, you should try driving a VW for more than a month.

Plus I'm still anti-SUV and the allroad fits that bill nicely.

M
'02 allroad tip
'00 VW GTI VR6

itacud

People like a fantastic new SUV.

But, I don't agree that the Touareg and the allroad are competitors. It doesn't matter how good it handles for an SUV, the Touareg is still a <i>real</i> SUV. It goes offroad - way off the road. In essence, those buying it should require that of their vehicles. The allroad, is a car with the ability to dial in more ground clearance when needed - a very different thing.

I don't remember the Touareg's adverstized specs, but it would need a lot of gas to accellerate as fast as an allroad 6-spd, and it would need to be mighty stiff to corner nearly as well as the allroad.

No doubt it will be a fantastic SUV, and no doubt it will sell very well. I just don't think it's target market overlaps with the allroad's.

allroadguy

And that was with the 4-Zone Climatronic wich most peoplke won't get...

I loathe SUV's but the "luxury" list on the Touareg is very appealing. It has more at $51K than other luxury cars (including Audi A8) have at over $71K... And I don't have an issue going from Audi to VW - the Toureg &amp; Phaeton to me are the closest to Audi quality (if not equal) without the huge cost... 8-)

Hi Fin!

allroadguy

Well said! Toureg = SUV, AR =... Well, AR! (Sadly, soon to be history). Sigh..

markcincinnati

Actually I agree with all the above posts and I didn't know that the price was $51 not $45. But, the comments that Csaba was making were about the Toureg's ON ROAD capabilities -- he said something like ". . .if I had 'dialed the trick suspension' to the sport mode, it would've handled even better."

The C/D report made the Toureg seem like it was (with the exception of the extreme off road capabilities that the VW apparently has) much more "car like" than virtually any other SUV.

My allroad is certainly very car like and you're right, my 6spd MANUAL 2.7T allroad does have acceleration numbers that beat the VW -- but my "marketing" point is/was to comment on how the "test report" effected my 3 time TT driving, wife -- she thought, by her own extrapolation I grant, that the VW was being compared favorably to the new Porsche (based on the same chassis, etc) and very favorably to most of the attributes I think those of us on this forum admire and enjoy about our allroads.

Now, on the issue of VW versus Audi luxury -- completely agree HISTORICALLY. The Toureg and Phaeton MAY be changing this. The C/D test did take you inside the cabin -- the thing does look very nice, better than any VW I've ever seen.

So it is not MEANT to compete -- yet my anecdote demonstrates that it MAY do so.

Well, maybe not -- no one I know has ever even heard of an allroad -- so if they're looking at the Toureg, it is likely that they'll compare it to the X5 or M class -- where the VW clearly blows them away.

RMcQ

In random order....

- I don't care that the allroad doesn't get mentioned that much when the press talks about all the new crossovers. I like unique cars and I am actually fine with people knowing less about the allroad.

- The allroad doesn't get as much attention because it is an A6......YES, that's right. It is just a modded A6. The T-egg is a ground up SUV design similar in impact to the new Volvo XC90 which is not compared all that directly to the V70 based Volvo Cross Country.

- Dr. Piech made his strategy for VW known years ago. People thought he was nuts, but he said that VWs were going to compete directly with BMW, Mercedes, etc. He made good on his word and it will be interesting to see how the market treats this move.

- VWs are not subordinate to Audis. Audi is subordinate to VW. VW fit/finish can be on par with Audi if they want. Golfs, Jettas, etc. are lower priced cars and for the money they exceed their segments in these details. If VW wants to have fit/finish in the T-egg or Phaeton like an Audi they will just do it - end of story. To say VW can't put a car together like Audi is silly since Audi <b>IS</b> VW.

-In a way, we may all be guinea pigs for VW. It seems that the allroad may have been a short lived experiment to test new air suspensions and how the market would react to a crossover with car like power/handling, but some high ground clearance capability. The allroad may have been a toe dipped in the SUV water - never intended to be a sales success. Oddly enough, thats fine with me.

Don't get me wrong, I love this car. It still is the only car on the market right now that fits my needs. The fact that I insist on a manual trans means that I shop from a tiny subset of the market of wagonish, powerful, AWD cars.

itacud

If you want a Horse, why would you shop for a Camel - even if a particularly fine breed. =)

Ok, it's a silly analogy... but it's the only way I can impress the point. If one wants a car, an SUV is a whole 'nuther species... and even the finest examples, are still SUVs. The time will come when the SUVs of tommorrow can handle like the cars of today. But just think of how the cars will drive, when that time comes. =)

pervrseWI

fully loaded. The base price for the V8 is about $40 thousand. I also sat in it twice it is very nice!! You do get more for your money than many other SUV's. As far as the luxury I thought is was very close to an audi.