Twilight Blindness

I am in the market for a used C5 allroad, and am checking out one advertised as having recently had timing belt, tensioners, water pump/therm, and valve cover gaskets replaced. When I asked after the replacements, it was explained that the previous owner had replaced the timing belt, tensioners, and WP/therm using a kit, possibly on his own, and mistimed the engine. The dealer whose vehicle I'm sniffing around explained that they pulled it apart, re-timed the engine, and everything is in order.

I used to own one of these. I know that, like an aging boxer, there are two basic states of behavior when it comes to timing in the 5V engine: "Calm and Proper," and "Explosive Violence." Not much in the way of middle ground. I have seen the configuration of valves in the cylinder head; it is the Tetris of round objects.

All that said, it seems most likely to me that the previous owner attempted to replace the timing belt, failed to time it properly, and beat the insides to hell. They traded the vehicle to the current dealer, who reset the valves and retimed the engine. If they had mentioned replacing valves or any other internal bits I would feel a little better, but they did not.

How probable is it that a 2.7t timing belt might be installed improperly enough for someone to know they'd mistimed the engine, but close enough to proper that it hasn't done serious internal damage as soon as the ignition is engaged? I loved my allroad. I miss my allroad. I could very easily begin the process of making this one mine, but not if the engine's wrecked before I put my hands on the wheel. I usually think of that as my job.

Twilight Blindness

Also, hello friendly Audiworld folk, greetings and felicitations. I have previously turned to your many discussions for insight. In this situation, I just want to know what to ask the dealer in order to drill down on this matter. I know enough to know that I don't know enough, but that there are about ten thousand different engine error codes and that the position of the timing belt might not matter if one of the exhaust cams is out of step with the engine when it's put back together, which is the closest example I've found forum-searching. Should I expect internal damage to valves and pistons, even if everything was reset and returned to its proper position? Is there any way to verify the integrity of those parts without pulling it into service position, removing everything from the engine, and exposing said parts to daylight? I would like to think that I'm dealing with someone who isn't trying to screw me, but they may be dishonest, or they may not know that they're screwing me. Either way, if the only way to be sure is to pull the engine and look at the inside, that's going to add as much to the cost as buying from another, more distant dealer.

Twilight Blindness

... Okay, so experience is the best teacher; four lessons learned:


- The first person who told me that there was essentially no way one of those engines could be safely mistimed didn't know what they were talking about. I need to cultivate more reliable information sources. I am not a mechanic; I'm a nerd for nature. Rocks, mostly. Very few situations where you want those to have moving parts.

- The business with which I am dealing is in fact honest. My policy is, "better to get burned thinking the best of others than to stay cool in a world full of grifters and thieves." It does not always happen that my confidence is rewarded, but it's a great feeling when I meet someone and can immediately determine that they're on the level and have been since word one of communication between us. Damned impressive. Now the only catch will be figuring out how to handle bringing this mossy-green beast to the opposite corner of the state for service/repair, and what I will drive in the meantime while that is being worked on. I told myself I wasn't going to buy more than one car this year. Of course, I also told myself I was going to spend about five times as much on that car (and buy a Honda Crosstour, and pretend it was a C5 allroad), so maybe I'll wiggle a little. We'll see.

- The AR I'm looking at was part of a local enthusiast's stable per the dealer, and according to its history report, maintained with religious devotion for at least the time it was serviced at a shop reporting its work to Carfax. This, however, would have been evident without a history report just by listening to the engine and feeling the leather upholstery. Close to 160kmi and both are still quite smooth. The seals around all of the glass are perfect, there's hardly a ding or scratch on the paintwork to show for its 14 years of life. I will keep up with the maintenance, and enjoy the fruits of all the care put into to keeping it in such shape.

- The C5 AR community is literally everywhere. Also, the world is small. I'm afraid that I stepped on a landmine with my very first posting to the forum, because I can assume that both the person who gave up their AR (whose profile I think I've already seen) and the person who is selling the vehicle will probably read this. I did not realize this until I left the dealership and realized that the man with whom I'd been speaking had made reference at least once to language from my post; I am usually faster on the uptake than I have been, but it's been days of less than two hours' sleep per night, and running around like a lunatic on zero caffeine (I'm not even sure what's powering me). I was on cough medicine last night (and the night before that, and today), but not the good stuff - the awful, over-the-counter crap. Now I have the stuff that's basically Vicodin in a bottle, and I'm aware that I can probably just walk back off said landmine, with a better introduction; this will be coming when I am not on any sort of cough medicine. Probably.

Supplementary lesson five, brought to you by The Good Stuff: This username sucks. I mean, I do have some degree of twilight blindness (need that contrast), and at the time I was thinking, "it's funny, because this is the only part of 95 that runs east-west through most of its stretch, so I've spent at least a couple thousand hours driving into blinding sunrises or sunsets." It's not funny, though. It doesn't even have any metaphorical value It's just some words. It reminds me of some My Little Pony nonsense my niece would watch. So, going to fix that up if I can.

To sum up: Thank you all for not responding, and giving me the chance to learn these lessons on my own, and hopefully set everything right. I did not realize how few degrees of separation there are in this community (it reminds me of my hometown) and did not intend to ruffle feathers with my questions. I'm psyched that there are AR enthusiasts who know vastly more than I do (pretty much all of you) near me. Even separated by the Internet, sharing a geographical region is always nice.

Sleep has finally come to take me, hopefully for more than a couple of hours. I'm going to think up a better username, post a proper introduction, and spend more time reading through the back pages of posts and otherwise "catching up." I look forward to more productive, at least slightly less incoherent discussions in the future. Cheers!

- Brian

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The first F does not stand for "File."

-Brian