Performance brake pads/fluid/lines update... (long)
02-03-2003, 10:11 AM
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Performance brake pads/fluid/lines update... (long)
For those who don't know, I had a last minute brake upgrade performed last week on the allroad. Kerr Friction (Audi A4) pads, Stoptech Stainless Steel Braided lines, and ATE Superblue racing brake fluid were installed.
So, after a weekend of stomping on the brake pedals around sunny Laguna Seca (on and off track), I'm happy to say that the pedal feel has improved somewhat. The new pads definately bite well, though they loudly announce their presence at any speed under 10mph. Most importantly, fluid and pads exibited no fade under moderate track use. Another less fortunate S8 driver exited the track in a hurry when his stock brake fluid boiled at the end of Laguna's front straight.
There have been, however, a couple of significant downsides. The pedal travel initally increased to the point of scariness. My heart jumped a couple of times Friday night when I forgot that I needed to push the brake nearly to the floor before it would engage. As of today, it still needs to pushed far, but not as far.
It's harder now, than before, to heel-toe the allroad. Whereas previously, the brake would engage sufficiently by the time the brake-pedal was flush with the accellerator, it's now necessary to push the brake below the throttle before it's time to rev match. This makes the rev matching much more difficult. I'm still hoping a (new) brake flush will fix this.
Clutch squeak: The car was picked up Thursday night with the new fluid, and by Friday night a barely noticable squeak could be heard when depressing the clutch pedal. By Saturday morning this noise was unmistakable, and by today, it's just plain noisy! Apparently the ATE Superblue fluid that New Dimensions - the shop who performed the labor - used is the one type of fluid that's incompatible with Audi clutch systems. I was told my several people at the track, including the tech inspectors, to get it out as soon as possible. The system will have to be flushed twice, and the clutch master cylinder drained, to ensure that permanent damage does not occur. If addressed quickly, I'm told the squeaking may go away. A quick AW search revealed that this is well known information, which I should have been armed with before listening to the "Audi expert" at the shop I went to.
So, after replacing the existing fluid with Motul 600, I'll report later if the pedal feel improves, or the clutch squeak diminishes.
So, after a weekend of stomping on the brake pedals around sunny Laguna Seca (on and off track), I'm happy to say that the pedal feel has improved somewhat. The new pads definately bite well, though they loudly announce their presence at any speed under 10mph. Most importantly, fluid and pads exibited no fade under moderate track use. Another less fortunate S8 driver exited the track in a hurry when his stock brake fluid boiled at the end of Laguna's front straight.
There have been, however, a couple of significant downsides. The pedal travel initally increased to the point of scariness. My heart jumped a couple of times Friday night when I forgot that I needed to push the brake nearly to the floor before it would engage. As of today, it still needs to pushed far, but not as far.
It's harder now, than before, to heel-toe the allroad. Whereas previously, the brake would engage sufficiently by the time the brake-pedal was flush with the accellerator, it's now necessary to push the brake below the throttle before it's time to rev match. This makes the rev matching much more difficult. I'm still hoping a (new) brake flush will fix this.
Clutch squeak: The car was picked up Thursday night with the new fluid, and by Friday night a barely noticable squeak could be heard when depressing the clutch pedal. By Saturday morning this noise was unmistakable, and by today, it's just plain noisy! Apparently the ATE Superblue fluid that New Dimensions - the shop who performed the labor - used is the one type of fluid that's incompatible with Audi clutch systems. I was told my several people at the track, including the tech inspectors, to get it out as soon as possible. The system will have to be flushed twice, and the clutch master cylinder drained, to ensure that permanent damage does not occur. If addressed quickly, I'm told the squeaking may go away. A quick AW search revealed that this is well known information, which I should have been armed with before listening to the "Audi expert" at the shop I went to.
So, after replacing the existing fluid with Motul 600, I'll report later if the pedal feel improves, or the clutch squeak diminishes.
02-03-2003, 10:25 AM
#2
I'm surprised ND dropped the ball on this
they are a reputable tuner and though they focus on VWs, an Audi is a VW.
No excuse. Will they do the double flush for you at their cost?
No excuse. Will they do the double flush for you at their cost?
02-03-2003, 10:42 AM
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I was planning on going to DM Motors in Palo Alto...
This place was recommended to me by one of the Audi Club techs who expends a good deal of effort abusing his S4(s). And before I gave any details, he guessed that I had gone to ND when I mentioned the squeak.
ND charged me 6 hours of labor and claimed that they spent 9 hours on the job - pads/lines/fluid. As a result, they aren't keen on doing anything more on their dollar, nor am I keen on having them do anything more to the car. =) I think we'll just part like this. I know they have a decent reputation, and I don't want to trash them. At the very minimum, the car was safe on the track, which was my first priority. But, my experiance was poor enough that I'd prefer to fix the problem elsewhere.
ND charged me 6 hours of labor and claimed that they spent 9 hours on the job - pads/lines/fluid. As a result, they aren't keen on doing anything more on their dollar, nor am I keen on having them do anything more to the car. =) I think we'll just part like this. I know they have a decent reputation, and I don't want to trash them. At the very minimum, the car was safe on the track, which was my first priority. But, my experiance was poor enough that I'd prefer to fix the problem elsewhere.
02-03-2003, 02:33 PM
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thanks for the update...
it looks like this is a worthwile upgrade if you track the car But I'm concerned about the low speed brake squeal. My Tahoe has Praisedynobrake pads and SS lines. The brakes sequealed a lot for the first 2k mi, and it just plain drove me crazy.
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02-03-2003, 10:35 PM
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Yes... it's an 03 thing...
The good news - now that I know aftermarket performance pads are available - is that the 2-pad caliper pads are much cheaper than pads for the HP2 calipers. =) Nearly 1/3 the price for Porterfields!
