What other cars have AWD and ESP as good as the allroad?
02-17-2003, 08:42 AM
#1
New Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What other cars have AWD and ESP as good as the allroad?
I have been extremely impressed with the allroad's ability to maintain traction and keep the driver in control. My wife is impressed too and wants a car with a comparable AWD/ESP system. She admits that she doesn't remain composed in panic situations so I would like her to have a car that will keep her out of trouble as much as possible in all weather conditions.
I'm not a nuts and bolts car guy so I don't know exactly what contributes to the allroad's performance. From my playing around in the snow it seems that the ESP is at least as important as the AWD in regaining control once it breaks loose.
What should I look for? Who else has traction and stability control comparable to an Audi? I'm particularly wondering about the Japanese car based SUV's (Pilot, Murano, Highlander).
Thanks!
-Dylan
I'm not a nuts and bolts car guy so I don't know exactly what contributes to the allroad's performance. From my playing around in the snow it seems that the ESP is at least as important as the AWD in regaining control once it breaks loose.
What should I look for? Who else has traction and stability control comparable to an Audi? I'm particularly wondering about the Japanese car based SUV's (Pilot, Murano, Highlander).
Thanks!
-Dylan
02-17-2003, 09:02 AM
#2
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,833
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some may disagree, but there are vehicles which have better AWD systems than Audis...
But, it really depends on what you want the AWD for! =)
Audi's system is quick. The Torsen center diff is excellent for road use (at speed), and the EDLs add even more traction when you go slower (below 50/80mph - depending on car).
The problems arrise in offroad/severe snow use, where you face extreme variations in traction. One example would be where two wheels are on ice and 2 on asphault. You're more than likely to get stuck in an Audi - where you would not in a different car. This is because the Torsen Diff can not differenentiate, when the torque difference between front and back is too great - (33%/66% is the max difference.) For all other situations, the Torsen differential reacts instantly, keeping the right about of power at each axel.
When magazines do tests, they find that most vehicles offering full time AWD do a good job of it. If it makes a difference to you, Subaru has been doing it for a while also, just like Audi.
Audi's system is quick. The Torsen center diff is excellent for road use (at speed), and the EDLs add even more traction when you go slower (below 50/80mph - depending on car).
The problems arrise in offroad/severe snow use, where you face extreme variations in traction. One example would be where two wheels are on ice and 2 on asphault. You're more than likely to get stuck in an Audi - where you would not in a different car. This is because the Torsen Diff can not differenentiate, when the torque difference between front and back is too great - (33%/66% is the max difference.) For all other situations, the Torsen differential reacts instantly, keeping the right about of power at each axel.
When magazines do tests, they find that most vehicles offering full time AWD do a good job of it. If it makes a difference to you, Subaru has been doing it for a while also, just like Audi.
02-17-2003, 11:38 AM
#4
AWD+ESP etc.
I do not personally know who has similar systems to the Audi -- but I know generally that there are, at least on paper, similar systems.
You can find out a whole bunch about these sytems at:
http://www.abs-education.org/educ/eduindex.htm
The components -- and I think some of these names are "brand names" that Audi and some others use are as follows (and this is not everthing that an Audi has) -- ABS+brake assist and ESP.
Other names for systems that you might find from other car companies include:
· Active Handling
· AdvanceTrac?
· Dynamic Stability Control
· StabiliTrac
· Traxxar?
Audis also have Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD), Electronic Differential Locks (EDL) and probably other TLA's that you can find here or on other web sites.
Now with respect to quattro, well quattro has been called all wheel drive, which used to be stated as a method to differentiate Audi's from what was termed 4 wheel drive (which at the time meant a vehicle, often a truck, that had the capability for any of the four wheels to be turned by the engine's power -- and further meant that with appropriate differential locks could literally lock all four wheels to the engine, in effect).
The original quattros had a three position switch which would allow the driver to lock both the center and rear differentials -- which would, of course disable ABS (if the car was so equipped). My last quattro have such a swicth was a 1985 4000CS quattro with a 5spd and a 115hp 5 cylinder engine).
Today the quattro function is 100% transparent -- and this is what some folks don't like. However, without arguing the point, perhaps what you are looking for is a Torsen system or a Haldex -- hope I spelled it correctly.
Most of us for our "daily driving duties" will find the Audi Torsen system with its associated electronic wizards more than adequate to the task of providing great performance, control exceeding almost everything else and FQ (the fun quotient).
Now, maybe Subaru or Honda or Mitsubishi has something to your wife's liking -- find out what they call theirs and check out the above URL -- you will be pretty far along in answering your questions.
Here is a video clip about ABS if you would care to share it with your wife.
www.theautochannel.com/cybercast/abs/abs2000.asx
Hope this helps.
You can find out a whole bunch about these sytems at:
http://www.abs-education.org/educ/eduindex.htm
The components -- and I think some of these names are "brand names" that Audi and some others use are as follows (and this is not everthing that an Audi has) -- ABS+brake assist and ESP.
Other names for systems that you might find from other car companies include:
· Active Handling
· AdvanceTrac?
· Dynamic Stability Control
· StabiliTrac
· Traxxar?
Audis also have Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD), Electronic Differential Locks (EDL) and probably other TLA's that you can find here or on other web sites.
Now with respect to quattro, well quattro has been called all wheel drive, which used to be stated as a method to differentiate Audi's from what was termed 4 wheel drive (which at the time meant a vehicle, often a truck, that had the capability for any of the four wheels to be turned by the engine's power -- and further meant that with appropriate differential locks could literally lock all four wheels to the engine, in effect).
The original quattros had a three position switch which would allow the driver to lock both the center and rear differentials -- which would, of course disable ABS (if the car was so equipped). My last quattro have such a swicth was a 1985 4000CS quattro with a 5spd and a 115hp 5 cylinder engine).
Today the quattro function is 100% transparent -- and this is what some folks don't like. However, without arguing the point, perhaps what you are looking for is a Torsen system or a Haldex -- hope I spelled it correctly.
Most of us for our "daily driving duties" will find the Audi Torsen system with its associated electronic wizards more than adequate to the task of providing great performance, control exceeding almost everything else and FQ (the fun quotient).
Now, maybe Subaru or Honda or Mitsubishi has something to your wife's liking -- find out what they call theirs and check out the above URL -- you will be pretty far along in answering your questions.
Here is a video clip about ABS if you would care to share it with your wife.
www.theautochannel.com/cybercast/abs/abs2000.asx
Hope this helps.
02-17-2003, 11:45 AM
#5
New Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New Range Rover also uses Torsen center w/ 4 wheel EDL...
They wouldn't use this setup if it didn't work. That being said, the ultimate offroad traction is provided by 3 fully locked differentials.
02-17-2003, 01:54 PM
#7
New Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having had a 2000 MBZ 430 4matic, I was not
impressed at all. Very abrupt with the ESC or whatever they called it. Traded it for a 2001 A6-4.2 which I drove for approx. 70,000 miles and it was great, just like the ar. I believe that Audi and Subaru have the best AWD for automobiles.
I presently am driving a 2000 Landcruiser until I decide what car to buy this spring and it will go anywhere. I feel it is better than the Range Rovers I have owned which lacked the center differential lock.
Also, have a 91 Grand Wagoneer with 47,000 miles which goes anywhere. Looks like new and is a fun drive.
I presently am driving a 2000 Landcruiser until I decide what car to buy this spring and it will go anywhere. I feel it is better than the Range Rovers I have owned which lacked the center differential lock.
Also, have a 91 Grand Wagoneer with 47,000 miles which goes anywhere. Looks like new and is a fun drive.
Trending Topics
02-17-2003, 05:43 PM
#9
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,833
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not about endorsement... the Torsen diff can have it's bias ratio exceeded, at which point ...
it's no different than an open diff.
However, you may know that Hummers have Torsen diffs on both axels, yet they can be moved with one wheel in the air. This is done through Brake-Throttle Modulation. The driver has to stand on the brake, then apply the throttle. This causes the free wheel to feel torque acting against it, thus allowing the Torsen to continue to differentiate between the two drive shafts. It helps, however, that the Torsen is a high bias model (5:1), and that the brakes used have a very high torque as well.
However, you may know that Hummers have Torsen diffs on both axels, yet they can be moved with one wheel in the air. This is done through Brake-Throttle Modulation. The driver has to stand on the brake, then apply the throttle. This causes the free wheel to feel torque acting against it, thus allowing the Torsen to continue to differentiate between the two drive shafts. It helps, however, that the Torsen is a high bias model (5:1), and that the brakes used have a very high torque as well.
02-17-2003, 05:59 PM
#10
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,833
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually, neither ABS nor ESP/DSC/etc... cause a vehicle to become all-wheel-drive...
But EDL, however, will do so. This is what the ML SUVs use, as well as many of the cross-over segment all-wheel-drives.
Open differentials operate by providing both output shafts the same amount of torque. When one wheel slips and the other doesn't, the wheel with traction requires more torque to turn, than does the wheel w/o traction. The result is that the open diff stops sending power to the wheel with traction. An Electronic-Differential-Lock just applies the brake to the slipping wheel, to add resistance to it's drive shaft. This additional torque on the slipping wheel allows the open diff to transfer additional torque to the non-slipping wheel.
While the hardware to effect this is the same that's used for ABS and ESP, the software is not the same. Hence, the existance of one does not imply the existance of the other.
Open differentials operate by providing both output shafts the same amount of torque. When one wheel slips and the other doesn't, the wheel with traction requires more torque to turn, than does the wheel w/o traction. The result is that the open diff stops sending power to the wheel with traction. An Electronic-Differential-Lock just applies the brake to the slipping wheel, to add resistance to it's drive shaft. This additional torque on the slipping wheel allows the open diff to transfer additional torque to the non-slipping wheel.
While the hardware to effect this is the same that's used for ABS and ESP, the software is not the same. Hence, the existance of one does not imply the existance of the other.