Why do we buy allroads? (long, and opinionated <g>)
11-16-2001, 05:39 AM
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Why do we buy allroads? (long, and opinionated <g>)
I'm a lifelong car enthusiast. My career aspiration in HS was to go into automotive design (the gas crisis of 1973 put an end to that!) I read 3 different car rags cover to cover, subscribe to digital cable almost exclusively for Speedvision, I've gone to the NY Auto Show every year for as long as I can remember, I have a show car in my garage that I'm modding as we speak, that I've expressed to my wife will be around longer than she is if she wants to continue to be critical of it <g>. I went to racing school as a 40th birthday present from same wife (OK, that bought her some of the points she lost being critical of the show car <g>
. So I think I have at least a fairly good handle on the car enthusiast's way of thinking. Hell, I even occasionally take up the cause of the ricers among my muscle car friends, because it's the current interpretation of the typical 50's hot rodder who did more to their car for show than for go - there were more Ron Howards than Paul LeMats running around.
Having said that, this crowd has me confused. I bought the allroad because it pretty darn near perfectly blends, IMHO, practicality, safety, dry and wet weather traction, and solid (but not spectacular) performance. The price tag's a little high versus other cars in its class (including other Audis), but that's offset, in my mind, by the ar's BIGGEST advantage, the height-adjustable suspension. I can run the ar at car height at interstate speed but still raise it up when called for to go camping (although I doubt I'll ever do any serious bushwhacking with it - that's what my mountain bike is for), or to avoid body damage (I pulled the entire front fascia off my A4 in a parking deck one time, and my wife pulled the front underbody off her A6 by backing up when there was snow in the driveway).
So when I see posts wanting to "permanently" lower their ar through reprogramming, I'm stumped, because that would seem to me to compromize the flexibility - nothing's gained by dropping down except perhaps for looks, and with the cladding the ar was never intended to be a show queen. When I read that people want to run at higher height settings at 85+ MPH, I'm at a loss to understand why, given that the lower ride height addresses the biggest weakness of the SUV, which is seen as somehow safer than a car, despite their higher center of gravity and abysmal stopping distances. When I read the criticisms of the steering, I struggle to understand, since the ar by its suspension design won't ever corner like it's on rails. When I read about people wanting to improve the repeated hard-braking characteristics, I have a hard time developing a mental image of autocrossing in an ar. Taking the resonator out, or chipping it? There are far better bang-for-the-buck performance cars out there, even within the Audi family.
So what's the ar to you? Were you drawn by the practicality? The performance? The uniqueness? Do any of you show your ar? Are you doing Saturday cruises, or out looking for street racing kills? Do you autocross or do any 1/4 mile racing? What is it that made the ar the right vehicle for you? Help me to gain some insight into what makes the ar an enthusiast vehicle.
Or not <g>.
. So I think I have at least a fairly good handle on the car enthusiast's way of thinking. Hell, I even occasionally take up the cause of the ricers among my muscle car friends, because it's the current interpretation of the typical 50's hot rodder who did more to their car for show than for go - there were more Ron Howards than Paul LeMats running around.Having said that, this crowd has me confused. I bought the allroad because it pretty darn near perfectly blends, IMHO, practicality, safety, dry and wet weather traction, and solid (but not spectacular) performance. The price tag's a little high versus other cars in its class (including other Audis), but that's offset, in my mind, by the ar's BIGGEST advantage, the height-adjustable suspension. I can run the ar at car height at interstate speed but still raise it up when called for to go camping (although I doubt I'll ever do any serious bushwhacking with it - that's what my mountain bike is for), or to avoid body damage (I pulled the entire front fascia off my A4 in a parking deck one time, and my wife pulled the front underbody off her A6 by backing up when there was snow in the driveway).
So when I see posts wanting to "permanently" lower their ar through reprogramming, I'm stumped, because that would seem to me to compromize the flexibility - nothing's gained by dropping down except perhaps for looks, and with the cladding the ar was never intended to be a show queen. When I read that people want to run at higher height settings at 85+ MPH, I'm at a loss to understand why, given that the lower ride height addresses the biggest weakness of the SUV, which is seen as somehow safer than a car, despite their higher center of gravity and abysmal stopping distances. When I read the criticisms of the steering, I struggle to understand, since the ar by its suspension design won't ever corner like it's on rails. When I read about people wanting to improve the repeated hard-braking characteristics, I have a hard time developing a mental image of autocrossing in an ar. Taking the resonator out, or chipping it? There are far better bang-for-the-buck performance cars out there, even within the Audi family.
So what's the ar to you? Were you drawn by the practicality? The performance? The uniqueness? Do any of you show your ar? Are you doing Saturday cruises, or out looking for street racing kills? Do you autocross or do any 1/4 mile racing? What is it that made the ar the right vehicle for you? Help me to gain some insight into what makes the ar an enthusiast vehicle.
Or not <g>.
11-16-2001, 05:55 AM
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Similarly long-winded answer to one question
I'll answer one of your questions--not one from the last paragraph. I think it's a bit silly that the car lowers constantly and even moderate speeds. Living in ND, there are numerous obstructions in and on the road, that the higher ground clearance is helpful for (and I'm not joking):
1. Sugar beets. If you've never experienced it, these are huge heavy, muddy ***** that litter the highways during "the harvest" from September through October.
2. Those nighttime animals (and their remnants from previous encounters with vehicles)--raccons, skunks, etc. And extra inch of ground clearance can make all the difference between having a fog lamp and having a repair.
3. Snow.
4. Snow drifts.
5. Chunks of Snow (from cars and trucks).
6. Did I mention snow? Seriously--I've had the car through it's first blizzard in October-12 inches with many feet drifts scattered about. It's ANNOYING to constantly push the "up" button every single time you have to slow down to pummel through a drift so that you can get that final extra inch. I found myself doing this CONSTANTLY. The town (and surroundings) were a disaster, but between drifts, I went faster than 20 mph and down she went, only to try slow down in time to below 20mph so she could lift back up without having to stop. Did I mention this was ANNOYING?
In this neck of the woods (though there are no woods in site and not a bump of a hill or incline anywhere) I'd like to run the car at height 3 all the time (maybe up to 65 mph) and height 4 up to 40 mph or so. It makes sense for what I encounter.
Also, having lived in Oregon and being used to a Grand Cherokee for very frequent camping/bushwhacking trips, I'd rarely keep it under 20 mph constantly, on back trails I'd regularly come across things that required greater clearance and lower speed--I imagine that too will be an annoyance to constantly keep pushing the "up" button for every embedded rock in the middle of an otherwise okay trail.
1. Sugar beets. If you've never experienced it, these are huge heavy, muddy ***** that litter the highways during "the harvest" from September through October.
2. Those nighttime animals (and their remnants from previous encounters with vehicles)--raccons, skunks, etc. And extra inch of ground clearance can make all the difference between having a fog lamp and having a repair.
3. Snow.
4. Snow drifts.
5. Chunks of Snow (from cars and trucks).
6. Did I mention snow? Seriously--I've had the car through it's first blizzard in October-12 inches with many feet drifts scattered about. It's ANNOYING to constantly push the "up" button every single time you have to slow down to pummel through a drift so that you can get that final extra inch. I found myself doing this CONSTANTLY. The town (and surroundings) were a disaster, but between drifts, I went faster than 20 mph and down she went, only to try slow down in time to below 20mph so she could lift back up without having to stop. Did I mention this was ANNOYING?
In this neck of the woods (though there are no woods in site and not a bump of a hill or incline anywhere) I'd like to run the car at height 3 all the time (maybe up to 65 mph) and height 4 up to 40 mph or so. It makes sense for what I encounter.
Also, having lived in Oregon and being used to a Grand Cherokee for very frequent camping/bushwhacking trips, I'd rarely keep it under 20 mph constantly, on back trails I'd regularly come across things that required greater clearance and lower speed--I imagine that too will be an annoyance to constantly keep pushing the "up" button for every embedded rock in the middle of an otherwise okay trail.
11-16-2001, 08:02 AM
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Faster@Higher
I heartily second the complaint about the speeds' at which the suspension lowers itself being too low. Not that I want to do 85 at level 4; but another 10-15 mph at the two top settings would be far less annoying. If the computer could be reprogrammed to do this, I'd consider getting one of those VAG thingies.
And a lower setting 1 would probably improve highway handling. I belive that the "regular" A6 sits some 35mm lower than the allroad on 1. HPH
And a lower setting 1 would probably improve highway handling. I belive that the "regular" A6 sits some 35mm lower than the allroad on 1. HPH
11-16-2001, 08:02 AM
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What the allroad is to me by:
I would like to consider myself a 'moderate' car enthusiast. If 1999 I finally got myself my dream car (an S4) but could never bring myself to track or autocross it cause I could never justify using a $40K car that way. In the middle of this year, we had a baby and suddenly the S4 (our only car as my wife worked in the same company) became too small. With a baby seat, the S4 literally became a 2 seater, and that was not an option. We looked around and the options were the BMW 5 series and Audi A6 - Performance and size. I wanted a manual, liked a wagon, (always been a closet wagon fan) and the wife and I prefer AWD. Thish gave me a couple of choices a 5 series wagon (Sportier but no AWD) and the ar. (I would have gotten the Avant over the ar if it was speced with a 6 speed and the 2.7T engine). The adjustable suspension was not a consideration and I currently use it as a 'parking lot ding defence' device. But I have to admit that it will probably expand my options on one of my road trips.
To me the ar is a blend of performance and family needs. I am a highway power junkie but don't want to compromise my factory warranty (hence the removal of the resonator but no chip...trust me I am itching for one). I want all 4200 lbs of the ar to corner better and stop better so I'll be replacing the tires with UHP tires.
To work on my driving skills, I finally bought myself a 1996 318ti to use at auto events (autocrosses for now). I will probably replace this with an S4 Avant when they cost below $25K used or possibly the Mitsubishi EVO VII if it gets here. I am learning 'mechanical basics' and applying them to the BMW. I've worked on the air intake, ported the intake manifold, matched ports...etc all for the costs of drill bits, sweat, time and a little blood.
I would like to do a 1/4 mile event just for the experience. It'll be interesting to see how well the ar performs just because the car mags never tested a U.S. speced vehicle. I would like to take the ar to an autocross on a rainy day just for kicks.
To me the ar is a blend of performance and family needs. I am a highway power junkie but don't want to compromise my factory warranty (hence the removal of the resonator but no chip...trust me I am itching for one). I want all 4200 lbs of the ar to corner better and stop better so I'll be replacing the tires with UHP tires.
To work on my driving skills, I finally bought myself a 1996 318ti to use at auto events (autocrosses for now). I will probably replace this with an S4 Avant when they cost below $25K used or possibly the Mitsubishi EVO VII if it gets here. I am learning 'mechanical basics' and applying them to the BMW. I've worked on the air intake, ported the intake manifold, matched ports...etc all for the costs of drill bits, sweat, time and a little blood.
I would like to do a 1/4 mile event just for the experience. It'll be interesting to see how well the ar performs just because the car mags never tested a U.S. speced vehicle. I would like to take the ar to an autocross on a rainy day just for kicks.
11-16-2001, 08:18 AM
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Why I bought an allroad (kind of long) but true!
I too am a car enthusiast, I have have about 15 different vehicles, ranging supped up muscle cars to pickup trucks to suv's, all of which I modified. My last vehicle was a chevy tahoe, and before that a ford mustang. When deciding what car to get next, I finally came across an Allroad. Finally a highbrid vehicle that encompassed all of the characteristics that I wanted in a car. The ability to go anywhere and do anything, this vehicle is a morph of all worlds. I spend the majority of my time in the city, so the ability to lower the vehicle comes in extremely handy for both looks and handeling characteristic. I am also an avid outdoor enthusiast, and this car enables me to venture to the mountains, sand dunes, and off the beaten path locations with the same ease of racing around corners and zipping through city traffic. None of this is news to anyone, I am sure we were all in search of the perfect all around vehicle. To top off all of the benifits, the car is blessed with audi luxry, and modest under the hood performance.
Why do we modify our vehicles?
I think the answer to this question is fairly simple. One of the greatest things about a car is that you can customize it. Although I think that it is pretty great to begin with, there is always room to improve both looks and performance. We also do this to make our cars different from the vehicles we see cruising the street, too make it our own. Whether your goal is to have the nicest cosmetic car around, or surprise the s#$t out of some guy in his new vette when you blow past him in your seemingly timid station wagon, the rewards are tailored to the individual.
In reguards to your question about the mods-
lowering the car in the first setting will slightly improve the looks and handling, removing the resonator; although not earthshatering is the beging to uncorcking the hidden potential of this vehicle. Adding a chip would just put a smile on anyones face, I'm sure.
To make a long story short, I don't understand why this bothers you so much, to each his own, I think I speak for most allroaders in say that we bouhgt this car for the complete package, everything from looks to performance, to versatiliy, to comfort, and the mods and improvements we make, jsut bring a smile to our face, whether you just want to mash the throttle and just hear the motor purr, or remove the stupid yellow turn signal reflector to match the euro specs, or lower your car to improve the looks/handling. all of these things are accounted to personal taste, luckily we have the ability to do these things, so our vehicle are not so cookie cutter. The bottom line is if you are a true automotive enthusiast, you would realize that these performance and appearance mods are what fuel the future development of cars and trucks, and at the same time put a smile on our faces everytime we see or drive our cars!
Why do we modify our vehicles?
I think the answer to this question is fairly simple. One of the greatest things about a car is that you can customize it. Although I think that it is pretty great to begin with, there is always room to improve both looks and performance. We also do this to make our cars different from the vehicles we see cruising the street, too make it our own. Whether your goal is to have the nicest cosmetic car around, or surprise the s#$t out of some guy in his new vette when you blow past him in your seemingly timid station wagon, the rewards are tailored to the individual.
In reguards to your question about the mods-
lowering the car in the first setting will slightly improve the looks and handling, removing the resonator; although not earthshatering is the beging to uncorcking the hidden potential of this vehicle. Adding a chip would just put a smile on anyones face, I'm sure.
To make a long story short, I don't understand why this bothers you so much, to each his own, I think I speak for most allroaders in say that we bouhgt this car for the complete package, everything from looks to performance, to versatiliy, to comfort, and the mods and improvements we make, jsut bring a smile to our face, whether you just want to mash the throttle and just hear the motor purr, or remove the stupid yellow turn signal reflector to match the euro specs, or lower your car to improve the looks/handling. all of these things are accounted to personal taste, luckily we have the ability to do these things, so our vehicle are not so cookie cutter. The bottom line is if you are a true automotive enthusiast, you would realize that these performance and appearance mods are what fuel the future development of cars and trucks, and at the same time put a smile on our faces everytime we see or drive our cars!
11-16-2001, 08:27 AM
#7
My $0.02
en·thu·si·ast n.
1. One who is filled with enthusiasm; one who is ardently absorbed in an interest or pursuit.
2. A zealot; a fanatic.
I think it might me easy to be confused by this crowd. You've got a huge range of ages, backgrounds and levels of enthusiasm. In my opinion you don't need to own an allroad to be an allroad enthusiast or own an Audi to be an Audi enthusiast. To me an enthusiast is one that has great interest in something. Some might just like dreaming about owning one, or another likes wash their car 3 times a week and keep it totally stock. Some might just do cosmetic mods and other are into performance mods of which the 2.7T engine is a tuners dream. This car is easily an enthusiast vehicle for so many reasons. My point is that everyone has different needs/wants so do what is important to YOU.
I was faced with a dilemma. I owned a highly modified 2000 S4 sedan. (Chip, exhaust, suspension, and lots of other stuff.) I have 2 dogs, I mountain & road bike, ski, golf & frequently take clients out to dinner, go on road trips, yadda yadda yadda. I was considering buying a used SUV to do the dirty work and hauling people but it was not practical for me to have a 3rd car in the driveway and pay the extra insurance, repair problems, crappy gas mileage and I just flat out hate SUVs. I also have some budget and space restrictions. I knew full well that I would be giving up some handling and performance for a huge gain in practicality and versatility.
I don't think anyone intended to lower the car "permanently". All discussions I have read on the lowering aspect is how to make the lowest level be 20mm lower and retain the other 3 levels at factory settings. The lowest level being 20mm would be a "looks" thing but the center of gravity would be lower and in theory, would improve handling.
I am also at a loss at why people would want to drive on level 3 at 85+ mph. I do understand that everyone has different needs and different driving situations so what someone else wants might not be right for you or me or might be totally unique for their situation.
The criticisms of the steering is of the overboosted steering not that the car doesn't handle like it was on rails. This car does handle very well but it will never be confused with an M3. Removing the relay will not magically transform the car into a track car. It does however make a big difference in real world driving. If you have driven an allroad with the relay in and then with it out, you'll understand. I suggest you try it out.
So what's the ar to me?
Were you drawn by the practicality? Yes
The performance? Yes
The uniqueness? Yes
Do any of you show your ar? I don't. I used to show my '65 Mustang but I have more fun driving.
Are you doing Saturday cruises, or out looking for street racing kills? I do the local Audi club drives and lay the smack down on the ricers when the need arises. Losing to a big ol' station wagon has to be embarrassing! :-)
Do you autocross or do any 1/4 mile racing? Not in the allroad but did in my S4. I might do the drags next summer to see what it will do.
What is it that made the ar the right vehicle for me? Hauls bikes, hauls dogs, hauls ***. `Nuff said.
1. One who is filled with enthusiasm; one who is ardently absorbed in an interest or pursuit.
2. A zealot; a fanatic.
I think it might me easy to be confused by this crowd. You've got a huge range of ages, backgrounds and levels of enthusiasm. In my opinion you don't need to own an allroad to be an allroad enthusiast or own an Audi to be an Audi enthusiast. To me an enthusiast is one that has great interest in something. Some might just like dreaming about owning one, or another likes wash their car 3 times a week and keep it totally stock. Some might just do cosmetic mods and other are into performance mods of which the 2.7T engine is a tuners dream. This car is easily an enthusiast vehicle for so many reasons. My point is that everyone has different needs/wants so do what is important to YOU.
I was faced with a dilemma. I owned a highly modified 2000 S4 sedan. (Chip, exhaust, suspension, and lots of other stuff.) I have 2 dogs, I mountain & road bike, ski, golf & frequently take clients out to dinner, go on road trips, yadda yadda yadda. I was considering buying a used SUV to do the dirty work and hauling people but it was not practical for me to have a 3rd car in the driveway and pay the extra insurance, repair problems, crappy gas mileage and I just flat out hate SUVs. I also have some budget and space restrictions. I knew full well that I would be giving up some handling and performance for a huge gain in practicality and versatility.
I don't think anyone intended to lower the car "permanently". All discussions I have read on the lowering aspect is how to make the lowest level be 20mm lower and retain the other 3 levels at factory settings. The lowest level being 20mm would be a "looks" thing but the center of gravity would be lower and in theory, would improve handling.
I am also at a loss at why people would want to drive on level 3 at 85+ mph. I do understand that everyone has different needs and different driving situations so what someone else wants might not be right for you or me or might be totally unique for their situation.
The criticisms of the steering is of the overboosted steering not that the car doesn't handle like it was on rails. This car does handle very well but it will never be confused with an M3. Removing the relay will not magically transform the car into a track car. It does however make a big difference in real world driving. If you have driven an allroad with the relay in and then with it out, you'll understand. I suggest you try it out.
So what's the ar to me?
Were you drawn by the practicality? Yes
The performance? Yes
The uniqueness? Yes
Do any of you show your ar? I don't. I used to show my '65 Mustang but I have more fun driving.
Are you doing Saturday cruises, or out looking for street racing kills? I do the local Audi club drives and lay the smack down on the ricers when the need arises. Losing to a big ol' station wagon has to be embarrassing! :-)
Do you autocross or do any 1/4 mile racing? Not in the allroad but did in my S4. I might do the drags next summer to see what it will do.
What is it that made the ar the right vehicle for me? Hauls bikes, hauls dogs, hauls ***. `Nuff said.
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11-16-2001, 09:29 AM
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You're exactly stating the source of my confusion :)
Going 85+ at Level 3 (more than one person's stated desire in the last day or two) greatly increases your risk of serious injury, and I'm having a hard time understanding the perceived advantage. In a situation where you need to take evasive action at speed, your rollover risk is significantly higher at Level 3 than 1. So it is at 75+ at Level 2 (the preprogrammed lowering speed), although the risk is exponentially lower due to the changes in both variables - height and velocity.
Now, having a lower Setting 1 would work against your stated objective of sitting higher at higher speeds <g>. My counterargument for the perceived handling improvement from going lower than setting 1 is, you may be pushing the ar past its intended purpose. The ar isn't a performance car, it's a luxury wagon. It has a fairly high profile, certainly more svelte than the XCountry or ANY SUV, but it's not a sports sedan. Rather than lowering the car to improve safety, doesn't it make more sense to either a) lower your speed, or b) buy a different car more suited to triple digit speeds?
I'm not even going to address the issue of public safety from sustained triple digit driving speeds on public roads <g>.
Now, having a lower Setting 1 would work against your stated objective of sitting higher at higher speeds <g>. My counterargument for the perceived handling improvement from going lower than setting 1 is, you may be pushing the ar past its intended purpose. The ar isn't a performance car, it's a luxury wagon. It has a fairly high profile, certainly more svelte than the XCountry or ANY SUV, but it's not a sports sedan. Rather than lowering the car to improve safety, doesn't it make more sense to either a) lower your speed, or b) buy a different car more suited to triple digit speeds?
I'm not even going to address the issue of public safety from sustained triple digit driving speeds on public roads <g>.
11-16-2001, 09:32 AM
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well your answering your comment by YOU "modding" a show car... oook ;^}
It's about love of personal taste... and in my short opinion, It's not about what the other guy thinks or if he understands it or not... It's what YOU think that's important...