When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Agree with you on the skateboard platform of the i-Pace. Committing to an EV next year means having to choose between a transition vehicle like the e-Tron or M-B EQC with an adaptation of an ICE platform, or going with a purpose-built EV platform like the Tesla or I-Pace. I had a 2014 BMW i3 with the skateboard platform and it was clearly the way to go. Being able to wait until 2021 will bring more ground-up EV's: The BMW iNext and VW iDCrozz. In 2020, we'll have some more transition cars like the Volvo XC 40, BMW iX3 and BMW i4. But, I've got two PHEV leases tolling mid-late 2020, so I don't have the luxury of waiting. Other options are going for a transfer of a short-term lease, or getting another PHEV, whose all-electric range is getting to 100% of my local driving needs. On the other hand, I could fall in love with the e-Tron after a drive, or the i-Pace may get over it's current info system problems and owner experience may become non-typical of Jaguar, allowing me to get over my qualms. I think 2020 is going to be a transition year for EV's. The Electrify America system will be pretty well built out and there will be some pure EV vehicles, some transition-platform EV's, and some 35 mi range PHEV's. I think EV's will begin to make some inroads into mainstream America because there will be something for everyone. I have maintained that a 35 mi range PHEV makes the most sense with the current charging infrastructure. Electric for local use and ICE for intercity. The ICE drivetrain in a PHEV weighs less than the extra battery in a 200+ mile range EV and without many 150 KW chargers, makes a lot more sense for a do-anything vehicle. That's about to change with EA and 150+ KW chargers.
Yes, for most people, they do not care as much about the chassis under the skin as they do about interior noise, driving characteristics, and comfort. Tesla has purpose build chassis, and they still seem to have lots of problems with road noise, rattles, etc. I-Pace is a great chassis, but it is bonded and riveted aluminum, which is not a high volume type of design. I-Pace is very rigid, and lightweight when compared to strength. You will see this Chassis under many future products, both with JLR, and Magna will be using it in their China JV. E-Tron is a bit more of a boat when it comes to mass, but Audi has done a great job quieting the chassis, and tuning the suspension to give it better then average driving dynamics. Audi also reinforced the battery case much more than anyone else, its a very conservative design. I think cell damage in accidents leading to fire will be very rare. I am not a fan of PHEV, having owned a Volt initially, its a good stepping stone, and I loved my Volt,, but Volt is not an EV.
I am really excited about Electrify America, I follow their local progress very close. So many people are underestimation what the EA network will be when complete.
Big difference between a GM Volt and my BMW 330e, and even more so my X5 40e. If my only experience was with a Volt, I would't be a fan, either. Looking forward to driving the e-Tron and comparing it to the i-Pace driving experience. Appreciate your info on the JLR assembly process. As a retired NASA engineer, I'm a big believer in bonded and riveted aluminum for strength to weight ratio. The e-Tron's big advantage, for now, is the 150KW charging capacity. With all of the VW Group's adoption of it (and even 600V.), combined with the 150 KW (and even 300KW) for EA, the VW Group is going to have a big competitive advantage once the media and general public understand the importance of charging rate. My Level 2 home charging is good for local use and battery longevity, but "on-the-road" charging time is going to become a big deal, once the public understands it's importance. I have home charging and one should not even consider a PHEV without it. For those with no easy access to daily or overnight charging, one needs a 200+ mile range EV that can be charged once a week if one is going to go electric.
Big difference between a GM Volt and my BMW 330e, and even more so my X5 40e. If my only experience was with a Volt, I would't be a fan, either. Looking forward to driving the e-Tron and comparing it to the i-Pace driving experience. Appreciate your info on the JLR assembly process. As a retired NASA engineer, I'm a big believer in bonded and riveted aluminum for strength to weight ratio. The e-Tron's big advantage, for now, is the 150KW charging capacity. With all of the VW Group's adoption of it (and even 600V.), combined with the 150 KW (and even 300KW) for EA, the VW Group is going to have a big competitive advantage once the media and general public understand the importance of charging rate. My Level 2 home charging is good for local use and battery longevity, but "on-the-road" charging time is going to become a big deal, once the public understands it's importance. I have home charging and one should not even consider a PHEV without it. For those with no easy access to daily or overnight charging, one needs a 200+ mile range EV that can be charged once a week if one is going to go electric.
I am with you, the bonded/riveted chassis of the I-pace performs well on strength to weight, but its slow to build on the body line. Yes, the Trump card for the E-tron is charging, that and the infotainment system refinement is what attracted me. I am not a long time fan of Audi, and have never owned a VW product. If Jaguar had their crap together on the I-Pace, I would have bought that instead. IMO VW is going to be an EV leader in the next 5 years, I would guess their production will be multiples of Tesla's, and the 800V system they are utilizing on the Taycan, and E-tron GT will become more common throughout the industry, GM is working on even higher voltage batteries. I hope they do not go over 920V though, because that will trigger the next round of charger upgrades.
I-Pace is more efficient than E-Tron (per Bjorn Nyland) but charges slower.
Here's an interesting plot that factors charge rate and efficiency by showing distance per charge time. I believe this data was compiled from the fastned data for all these cars. From the graph, you can see how I-pace compares to e-tron. Even if I-pace is more efficient, e-trons charging rate really shows off its superiority. Charge at 100kw charger, though, and I-pace would probably be slightly ahead. On the flip side, the Model 3 is so efficient, it makes up for a slower charge rate.
Here's an interesting plot that factors charge rate and efficiency by showing distance per charge time. I believe this data was compiled from the fastned data for all these cars. From the graph, you can see how I-pace compares to e-tron. Even if I-pace is more efficient, e-trons charging rate really shows off its superiority. Charge at 100kw charger, though, and I-pace would probably be slightly ahead. On the flip side, the Model 3 is so efficient, it makes up for a slower charge rate.
Model 3 is about the same efficiency at the Kona, EPA MPGE figures are right in the margin of error. Bjorn did a race last year with his Tesla XP90DL against the Kona EV, and it was a dead heat when factoring in efficiency and charge rate (Kona actually won the race). I-Pace charging I expect will improve as Jaguar has stated that it was engineered to charge over 100 kW. But for now, the E-Tron will be the king of road trip SUV's as the charge rate bails out the consumption which is about 10% higher than Bjorn's Model X on a typical days drive, and I-Pace was about 5% lower than the X on the same drive full results will be posted the 11th of March, I believe. As E-Tron's start to get delivered there will be much more information about the consumption/charging. I will use Bjorn's method and get some data from around here, and my buddy with his X 100D has already agreed to race me Sea, to Missoula and back, and video the entire thing, another friend wants to take her Model S 75D, now we just need to get a model 3 dual motor, and an I-Pace to go.
It still baffles me why the comparison debates pit the E-Tron against the Model 3? These two are in totally different vehicle classes, who would cross shop the E-Tron with the Model 3? Of course the Model 3 is more efficient, it's like, 1500 lbs lighter. The E-tron really only competes with the model X and even that is a bit of a stretch. I'm of the opinion that the Model X is a very nice high end mini-van, not an SUV. That being said, yes it has two additional seats, more cargo room, but also has similar consumption as the E-tron. In the end the fast charging put the E-tron one leg up as I see it.
It still baffles me why the comparison debates pit the E-Tron against the Model 3? These two are in totally different vehicle classes, who would cross shop the E-Tron with the Model 3? Of course the Model 3 is more efficient, it's like, 1500 lbs lighter. The E-tron really only competes with the model X and even that is a bit of a stretch. I'm of the opinion that the Model X is a very nice high end mini-van, not an SUV. That being said, yes it has two additional seats, more cargo room, but also has similar consumption as the E-tron. In the end the fast charging put the E-tron one leg up as I see it.
Agree with you completely, the Model 3 is about nearly useless in my opinion other then for basic transportation. Model 3 cannot tow, it has limited cargo space, it sits low to the ground, it is noisy inside, and the stripped down nature of the car does not appeal to me esthetically. E-Tron is great, I will not lie I wish it had a bit more range, but the charge rate more than makes up for it on a road trip. I also find all of Tesla's range ratings to be false, I have yet to drive any Tesla that gets close to its EPA rated range, every time I drive one I wonder if they figured out a way to fudge the ratings because I have not been able to even get close to the rated range whereas on a Chevrolet Bolt I exceeded the EPA range.
I am surprise there have not been more discussion of the actual range for Tesla. I could not get to near the range in the model X no matter what conditions .
I am surprise there have not been more discussion of the actual range for Tesla. I could not get to near the range in the model X no matter what conditions .
I still think this is a YMMV situation. Some many variables! Any car can be driven past EPA numbers. It just might not be your driving style, speed, and vehicle spec(tires/wheels/etc.). Compared to NEDC and WLTP, EPA numbers have seemed to be the best estimate for my driving style. Does anyone know when EPA numbers are usually released? Before launch?
It still baffles me why the comparison debates pit the E-Tron against the Model 3? These two are in totally different vehicle classes, who would cross shop the E-Tron with the Model 3?
For someone that's decided they want an EV, there's really only a handful of options. There's literally only a few that sell in all 50 states (Telsa's, Bolt, Leaf, e-tron). There are some that say 50 state but not all dealers will support them. The cross shopping might be just very few options.
In defense of the Model 3, it is sporty, has advanced tech, and is $30,000 cheaper. I've never been interested in a sedan EV but not everyone needs an SUV or to tow trailers.
02-18-2019, 09:15 AM
