Tom-ETRON

It will be interesting to see what effect Teslas new pricing will have on cars like E-Tron and I-Pace? What do you guys think? Tesla has now lowered the price of the Model X 100D with Autopilot from 110K to 94K in the last couple months... very interesting.

1st Audi Owner

Until recently, Tesla had little competition; virtually none in the luxury electric vehicle segment. It was the "only game in town." Tesla could charge almost anything it wanted to, and it did. Then along came e-tron, I-pace, EQC400 and the like and the luxury electric vehicle market began to heat up. To me what is interesting is not what effect Tesla's reduced prices will have on e-tron and I-pace, but how the competition will influence future Tesla price reductions. If you strip away (please forgive me Tesla owners) snob appeal, in my view no Tesla can compete with Audi. Not in design, comfort, reliability, features, dealer network and much more.

Additionally, It would be interesting to get the reaction of recent Tesla buyers to the price reduction? No doubt, the class-action lawyers are recording their infomercials as you read this. I am unfamiliar with the resale market for used Teslas, but if there is one, this has got to knock it for a loop.

Tom-ETRON

I could not have said that better myself. I really do not like Tesla though, between Elon Musk's arrogance, and the way they do business I have nothing nice to say... The cars are OK (fun to drive), but nothing special, and with prices dropping like a rock. I am sure those consumer satisfaction scores are going to tank as fast as the residual values.

alexlear

So many details to unpack from today. Giving credit where credit is due, Tesla was (for the most part) the only game in town because they created the game. The e-tron, Bolt, EQC, Polestar, Kona, I-Pace, wouldn't exist if not for Tesla. The price adjustments today on Model S/X will drive demand for those models and the release of $35k Model 3 will provide competition at the low end. This is bound to put pressure on Audi, Jaguar, Mercedes, etc to re-evaluate pricing (or features) for next years models. This is great for us EV buyers! On competition, look at the exponential year-over-year growth of EVs. The sales that are going to hurt are the ICE vehicles in that class. Right now it seems the entire EV industry is global supply constrained. I think every EV manufacturer will sell out of available supply for a while. From a technical standpoint, Tesla has a slight lead in EV range, power, efficiency, OTA updates, and Autopilot system. I actually like Teslas approach to ordering, online pricing, and mobile servicing, allowing owners to avoid the terrible dealer experience. Don't get me wrong, they have a lot of work to do in this area but if they work out the details, I think its a nice option. I also think the new 7-day/1000 mile return policy is nice considering their sales model.

For me the question is, can Tesla become a great car company faster than legacy auto manufacturers become great EV builders. I'm not sure anyone knows yet. Maybe they will all just exist as good consumer choices.

I don't have any ill will towards Tesla as a company. They are competing hard and continuing to push the EV space forward at a significant pace.

Tom-ETRON

I was waiting for you to come with the Tesla defender post... You are so predictable. Ok ok ok, Tesla has pushed forward EV development, but has never learned how to build a truly quality built car. Tesla has superbly marketed their strengths, and ducked their head for their mountains of weakness, In the process Tesla has devoured billions of investor money, and had 3 re-orgs in the last 8 months. Tesla has the worst credit rating and supplier relationships in the industry (suppliers like to be paid on time). Tesla has been sued for pollution by the state of California, their CEO commutes back and forth to work on a Gulfstream G650LR, they have no solar on their factory, and very little at GF1. They brought out the 35K Model 3 because sales have absolutely collapsed in the USA. He said in the last earnings call that they would try to get the cost down, and release the car later this year, but you see they released the 35K model 3, and gave the 3rd price cut to S and X so far this year. Considering Q4 they had record sales and revenue, and still only made 139M (2%), what do you think Q1 is going to look like? We know sales will be lower, and prices on average down 10%, high take rate on 35K model 3 would be disaster.

alexlear

I'm not trying to convince anyone to love Tesla on an Audi forum. I just want to give them credit for changing up the automotive world. We now live in a world were an electric car does 0-60 in 2.4 seconds. Props to Tesla; your turn Audi.

Honestly, I want Tesla to keep being profitable. I'd like to dispel the myth that EVs can't be profitable.

On environmental issues, I'm not sure that any auto manufacturer can claim to be earth friendly, including Tesla. However, the industry change that Tesla has set in motion is many orders of magnitude greater than would have ever been accomplished with mpg increases in ICE vehicles. So whether directly or indirectly, I'll give them credit where it's due.

The fact is, the auto industry is hard. The thought that Tesla could not only exist, but set a technological standard that is difficult for even the oldest auto manufacturers to meet is fairly impressive. I don't expect Tesla to be perfect but I do expect continuous improvement.

1st Audi Owner

Indeed, Tesla has motivated the industry to come full-circle and put the emphasis back on the re-development of electric powered vehicles. The founders of the Baker Motor Vehicle Company (Cleveland, Ohio from 1899 to 1914) must be spinning with glee around the armature of their electric motor. We have come a long way since Emil Gruenfelt in 1909 covered 160.8 miles on a single charge in his Baker Electric Roadster.

Perhaps it is because of my age that I got a chuckle from Alexlear's pointing out that we live in a world where an electric car does 0-60 in 2.4 seconds. For me, acceleration is how quickly I am able to get out of bed in the morning, which for now I am able to accomplish in less time than it takes a Model S to reach 60 mph from a standstill.

I admire Audi for its focus on luxury, comfort and reliability, among other things, none of which seems to matter to Tesla. It is all acceleration and range. When the long-established automotive marques ramp-up production of their electric vehicles, Tesla will become more of a niche manufacturer at best, or a fond memory at worse. Elon Musk is a visionary and deserves recognition for his accomplishments, but it will be the legacy-manufacturers that make electric vehicles a success.

Tom-ETRON

Well said... I have wanted a luxury EV for many years, drove the original 2012 Model S and was super disappointed with everything but the acceleration. The original S did not even have cup holders, and the body fit was atrocious. I have seen alpha models built with prototype tooling that were much better built. I thought the I-Pace was going to be for me, but Jaguar slipped a bit on their final execution and scared me away. E-Tron is far from perfect, but it checks all the boxes that matter to me (quality, features, capability) as for 0-60 times, I cannot remember the last time I used wide open throttle from a stop. Actually even rolling I do not remember flooring it in any of our cars in the last year. I think I learned that if you accelerate faster then the other cars around you, you are just creating a more hazardous situation for everyone.

superswiss

It'll be interesting to see what happens to Tesla. The price reductions have been largely about countering the loss of the tax credit. I haven't really looked closely, but I have a friend who owns a Model 3. I'm not sure how much cheaper the cars actually are at the end due to the phasing out of the tax credits. This will be the first test to see if EVs can survive the loss of incentives. It's not just the tax credit, but here in CA, the HOV lane incentives are phasing out as well. I personally think a lot of the Tesla sales have been spurred by these incentives. I don't commute, but if I did I would have considered an EV solely to get access to the HOV lanes. I know for many that was/is a big incentive, but it's not sustainable. Used EVs with HOV stickers command a premium. I can't help the feeling that Tesla might become the next Tivo. A company pioneering a new segment, but eventually unable to compete with the more established companies with deeper pockets. I think Tesla is slowly losing what's been unique about them. Here in the USA, they are still the only one with a large fast charging network and it's proprietary. EA has ways to go to catch up. In Europe it's different and Tesla has already replaced their proprietary charging port with a CCS port in the Model 3 and the Superchargers are getting converted to CCS. Just a matter of time for them to be opened up to other EVs. In general, though, EVs have been riding on the back of incentives. Norway has the densest EV deployment so far and EVs are hugely incentified over there. The tax payer at the moment is subsidizing all these EVs.

ted99

I would not cross-shop the Model 3 for E-Tron, i-Pace, Polestar or EQC because of 1) Poor assembly, 2) Poor interior finish, and 3) Lack of a service infrastructure. On the other hand, I'm really glad that Tesla now has the formerly "unicorn-like" $35K Model 3, because it will temper the price expectations of the other manufacturers. I feel for the first Model 3 owners. I felt just like them after I saw what happened to the resale of my 2014 BMW i3. I worry that the same is going to happen with the E-Tron (and EQC). Very shortly after these hit the market, the new all-electric skateboard platform from the VW group will be out, all with even higher charging rates than our E-Trons. And shortly after that, solid state batteries with much greater capacity and lower weight will come. The E-Tron GT and the Porsche whose name I can never remember will be first up within a year. This skateboard platform has GOT to be more weight-efficient, like the i-Pace; than the E-Tron and EQC. I anticipate big hits to E-Tron resale, especially with a $35K Model 3 on offer, inferior though it may be. Tesla has premium brand cachet at least equal to Audi where I live. I am sufficiently worried about this that I may forego the E-Tron in favor of one of the 2020 BMW PHEV's for 3 years, after which the EV offerings should be more stable.