Using the included Charger
06-05-2019, 07:04 AM
#21
This is interesting because it seems to involve the fourth "neutral" wire in a 14-50 outlet. The smaller 14-40 outlet has three wires--two hot (usually red and black) and a green ground wire. The higher capacity 14-50 outlet has four wires--two hot, one "neutral" (usually white) and the green ground. When I read your initial post, it sounds to me like your 14-50 outlet does not have the white neutral wire and the Audi EVSE is crying tilt. First time I've read of an EVSE not accepting a 14-50 outlet without the neutral wire connected. My juicebox EVSE doesn't care--it just wants to be sure that there is a green ground wire.
I wonder if your neighborhood electrical distribution system doesn't support a "neutral" wire. I've never heard of this, but I don't know everything.
Have you had any further resolution of this issue?
I wonder if your neighborhood electrical distribution system doesn't support a "neutral" wire. I've never heard of this, but I don't know everything.
Have you had any further resolution of this issue?
06-05-2019, 07:57 AM
#22
AudiWorld Member
This is interesting because it seems to involve the fourth "neutral" wire in a 14-50 outlet. The smaller 14-40 outlet has three wires--two hot (usually red and black) and a green ground wire. The higher capacity 14-50 outlet has four wires--two hot, one "neutral" (usually white) and the green ground. When I read your initial post, it sounds to me like your 14-50 outlet does not have the white neutral wire and the Audi EVSE is crying tilt. First time I've read of an EVSE not accepting a 14-50 outlet without the neutral wire connected. My juicebox EVSE doesn't care--it just wants to be sure that there is a green ground wire.
I wonder if your neighborhood electrical distribution system doesn't support a "neutral" wire. I've never heard of this, but I don't know everything.
Have you had any further resolution of this issue?
I wonder if your neighborhood electrical distribution system doesn't support a "neutral" wire. I've never heard of this, but I don't know everything.
Have you had any further resolution of this issue?
06-05-2019, 08:09 AM
#23
Stupid mistake. Thinking of 40 amp breaker when I said 14-40. Yes, plugs are incompatible. Question remains: Will Audi EVSE work with no neutral wire on a 14-50 outlet? My Juicebox works with 14-30 outlet and no neutral.
06-05-2019, 09:57 AM
#24
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06-05-2019, 10:42 AM
#25
The neutral in an AC electrical system is designed as a current carrying conductor, to carry back any current from unbalanced loads to the source. Neutrals are installed as standard in pretty much every electrical system (and in all residential) in NA.
Some equipment will utilize 120v for their electronics or controls, and use 240v (or 208v for a wye connected system) for the actual main power. Think of a range/cooker in your house. The timer, clock, display, push buttons, etc. can use 120v (which is why the neutral is needed) but the oven and the burners use 240v to operate, as they consume a lot of power and running a higher voltage reduces the current draw for the same power usage (watts). The NEMA standards dictate that if a 14-50R is installed then both a neutral, and a ground are needed and should be terminated on their respective termination points.
The ground merely serves to provide an equipotential plane for all non-current carrying metallic components, and to act as a low impedance path for fault current (ground fault) to initiate the overcurrent protective device (breaker or fuse).
Some equipment will utilize 120v for their electronics or controls, and use 240v (or 208v for a wye connected system) for the actual main power. Think of a range/cooker in your house. The timer, clock, display, push buttons, etc. can use 120v (which is why the neutral is needed) but the oven and the burners use 240v to operate, as they consume a lot of power and running a higher voltage reduces the current draw for the same power usage (watts). The NEMA standards dictate that if a 14-50R is installed then both a neutral, and a ground are needed and should be terminated on their respective termination points.
The ground merely serves to provide an equipotential plane for all non-current carrying metallic components, and to act as a low impedance path for fault current (ground fault) to initiate the overcurrent protective device (breaker or fuse).
06-05-2019, 11:48 AM
#27
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- Hardwire Version: Connect the pigtail harness to the wiring terminal:RedBlackGreen
L1L2Ground
Note: No neutral (white) line is used.
06-05-2019, 07:12 PM
#28
AudiWorld Junior Member
Thread Starter
I'm going to wire up a 14-50 NEMA w/4 wires next weekend and see if that makes a difference.
That said, even it works all it does is prove that Audi's charger requires a higher bar than most other chargers, which if true is unnecessarily limiting. People aren't going to rewire public infrastructure for Audi
(of course if it doesnt work I'll know that my charger is just plain broken!)
That said, even it works all it does is prove that Audi's charger requires a higher bar than most other chargers, which if true is unnecessarily limiting. People aren't going to rewire public infrastructure for Audi
(of course if it doesnt work I'll know that my charger is just plain broken!)
06-06-2019, 03:44 AM
#29
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I'm going to wire up a 14-50 NEMA w/4 wires next weekend and see if that makes a difference.
That said, even it works all it does is prove that Audi's charger requires a higher bar than most other chargers, which if true is unnecessarily limiting. People aren't going to rewire public infrastructure for Audi
(of course if it doesnt work I'll know that my charger is just plain broken!)
That said, even it works all it does is prove that Audi's charger requires a higher bar than most other chargers, which if true is unnecessarily limiting. People aren't going to rewire public infrastructure for Audi
(of course if it doesnt work I'll know that my charger is just plain broken!)
"I've tried 4 plugs now at 3 different locations and not had any luck."
Has your dealer been any help?
06-06-2019, 06:14 AM
#30
The neutral in an AC electrical system is designed as a current carrying conductor, to carry back any current from unbalanced loads to the source. Neutrals are installed as standard in pretty much every electrical system (and in all residential) in NA.
Some equipment will utilize 120v for their electronics or controls, and use 240v (or 208v for a wye connected system) for the actual main power. Think of a range/cooker in your house. The timer, clock, display, push buttons, etc. can use 120v (which is why the neutral is needed) but the oven and the burners use 240v to operate, as they consume a lot of power and running a higher voltage reduces the current draw for the same power usage (watts). The NEMA standards dictate that if a 14-50R is installed then both a neutral, and a ground are needed and should be terminated on their respective termination points.
The ground merely serves to provide an equipotential plane for all non-current carrying metallic components, and to act as a low impedance path for fault current (ground fault) to initiate the overcurrent protective device (breaker or fuse).
Some equipment will utilize 120v for their electronics or controls, and use 240v (or 208v for a wye connected system) for the actual main power. Think of a range/cooker in your house. The timer, clock, display, push buttons, etc. can use 120v (which is why the neutral is needed) but the oven and the burners use 240v to operate, as they consume a lot of power and running a higher voltage reduces the current draw for the same power usage (watts). The NEMA standards dictate that if a 14-50R is installed then both a neutral, and a ground are needed and should be terminated on their respective termination points.
The ground merely serves to provide an equipotential plane for all non-current carrying metallic components, and to act as a low impedance path for fault current (ground fault) to initiate the overcurrent protective device (breaker or fuse).
Thank you very much for this explanation. I've often wondered. Since an EVSE and on-board charger don't ever produce an unbalanced load (unlike a dryer or range with 110v components), the neutral will never carry any current. My Juicebox EVSE tests for the presence of a green ground, but not a neutral. One wonders if the Audi charger also tests for an (unecessary) neutral. And, if so, is this what the future brings for all EVSE's?