Checkmate?
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AudiWorld Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: SF Bay Area
Thread Starter
AudiWorld Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 943
Likes: 153
From: SF Bay Area
Details are sketchy, but I think they've done it again! Audi hasn't delivered a single vehicle and 150kW just ain't so special anymore. They are implying that all existing Model 3's will be able to charge at 250kW on V3 with only a firmware update. That is exceptional.
Going to be a long day of contemplation. I lock tomorrow or cancel today.
Going to be a long day of contemplation. I lock tomorrow or cancel today.
AudiWorld Member
Joined: Dec 2018
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From: Coachella Valley, California
I may be mistaken
I may be mistaken, but I believe you are able to cancel right up to delivery. In any event, if I were you I would not "settle" for any vehicle that did not absolutely thrill me. The are so many choices already on the market and the number is increasing almost every day. It appears that charging rate is crucial to your decision. I doubt that any marque will beat Tesla in the near future regarding charging rate, but in my opinion this the only feature Tesla has that may be superior to those of other manufacturers.
Thread Starter
AudiWorld Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 943
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From: SF Bay Area
Yes, you can cancel at any time up to signing. I will never buy a Tesla. Not a car I can get passionate about.
Fast charging rate is a major factor, yes. There are two things the e-tron does well as an EV; rapid charging and regenerative braking. The rest of the E systems are nothing special, heavy and inefficient. As a car, fantastic. As an EV, acceptable. I knew V3 Supercharging was on the way, but didn't think the improvement would be this great. The thing that truly shocked me is the ability of all Model 3's to charge up to 250kW with only a software update. That is where Tesla wins hands down. IMO, there is zero chance that the e-tron will ever charge at greater than 150kW. The Q4 Concept is targeting 125kW in two years. There is a major disconnect with what Tesla is doing and what the rest are doing. Like I said, checkmate!
Fast charging rate is a major factor, yes. There are two things the e-tron does well as an EV; rapid charging and regenerative braking. The rest of the E systems are nothing special, heavy and inefficient. As a car, fantastic. As an EV, acceptable. I knew V3 Supercharging was on the way, but didn't think the improvement would be this great. The thing that truly shocked me is the ability of all Model 3's to charge up to 250kW with only a software update. That is where Tesla wins hands down. IMO, there is zero chance that the e-tron will ever charge at greater than 150kW. The Q4 Concept is targeting 125kW in two years. There is a major disconnect with what Tesla is doing and what the rest are doing. Like I said, checkmate!
AudiWorld Member
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From: Coachella Valley, California
It makes me wonder
It makes me wonder that if all it takes for Testa to increase the charging rate to 250kW is a software upgrade, might the already-installed charging hardware in the e-tron be capable of an enhanced charge rate upgrade? There are probably many "sleeping" upgrades installed as standard equipment on cars just waiting to be awakened with software re-programming. It certainly would simplify production and inventory control. The one pre-installed option that comes to mind is satellite radio. All luxury cars have it installed; all it takes is a credit card to activate it. Audi Connect is another example. Also, I believe Audi already has stated that Matrix headlights that are available in Europe but have not yet been approved for the U.S.can be software-activated when approved It would not surprise me if someday Audi were to offer enhanced charging.
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From: Seattle
No V3 charger rollout yet, Not eligible for Model S and X, Needs a software update to Model 3, Charge rate on Model 3 over 700 amps, Whew... Gotta see it to believe it. Tesla is in dire straits (near BK) and will say anything to drum up some business at this point. Audi Is 150 Kw to 80%, and still at 50kW at 98%, proven multiple times on different chargers in the wild by non Audi employees. Tesla's move?
Thread Starter
AudiWorld Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 943
Likes: 153
From: SF Bay Area
No V3 charger rollout yet, Not eligible for Model S and X, Needs a software update to Model 3, Charge rate on Model 3 over 700 amps, Whew... Gotta see it to believe it. Tesla is in dire straits (near BK) and will say anything to drum up some business at this point. Audi Is 150 Kw to 80%, and still at 50kW at 98%, proven multiple times on different chargers in the wild by non Audi employees. Tesla's move?
I'm staying the course for the time being. Locking in my Prestige, Typhoon, Okapi, Cold Weather tomorrow. On 21's of course.
Last edited by LavaGrau_A3; Mar 7, 2019 at 03:40 PM.
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From: Seattle
Have you had a chance to see, sit in E-Tron yet? Once you do, the Tesla's become pretty like economy grade.
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I suspect that Tesla's charging infrastructure is heavily biased to it's early market of California. Sometime later this year, I suspect that EA will surpass Tesla for the rest of the US, especially in 150KW charging. I agree that reliable really fast charging will await higher charging voltages, which cannot be done with a software upgrade. Current charging voltages seem to be requiring active cooling of the charging cables, when very high charging rates are used. My experience with finding a working plain old Level 2 charger in public spots says that adding active cooling will just add to inoperable chargers. Porsche is addressing this higher voltage issue, and I suspect that the Q4 e-Tron will adopt it, as well. I also understand that EA is going to deploy higher voltage chargers.
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There is a reason TSLA released their vehicle in the tested hardware configuration they did. The idea that they can change hardware without recalling their vehicles is not a stable idea long term. They may get a away with it for a while but sooner or later it will come back to haunt them.
The Charge rate is going to keep improving for a long time. I should note there that while the NEC2012 increased medium voltage to 1000V there is commentary that this line is quite arbitrary and can be increased 2000V quite easily as modern materials can handle this in the low voltage code space.
A steady pace of innovation will keep raising the charge rate over time rather than huge overnight jumps.
Last edited by theo1000; Mar 8, 2019 at 08:36 AM.