Jonny K

Audi Guys,

I've been meaning to do this for a while to finally close this chapter, but damn life is busy. Tonight I gave myself a push and properly finished compiling the history of my 97 S6 (which has been sold). I'm a geeky guy by nature, so I'm all about studying and scrutinizing everything to an obscene degree. With the S6 I kept a detailed log of all expenses and mileage, and here it is to share. At the very least, perhaps it will be an interesting read. Maybe somebody will want to make the story into a "made for TV" movie. I don't know, but here it is.

In the attached ZIP you'll find two spreadsheets, one in "ODF" format (open document) and the other in XLS format (Excel). The original is built using OpenOffice/LibreOffice (free office apps), but the excel copy should also work okay. Now, let's walk through the full sorted history of my car ownership. I've highlighted items of interest below. Some little things may be missing, but I think I've caught most everything.


July 19, 06 - Bought the car. Having basically no experience driving a manual I have the previous owner take me for a ride and I don't actually drive myself when buying the car. The man who sold it to me started to tear up during the sale.

To prepare for driving a manual I had done a quick test drive in a Mazda Protege5 to get some quick practice before picking up the car and found it easy. When I go a few days later to get the Audi I have a horrible time trying to drive it, as the clutch is WAY more firm and aggressive than the Protege5 was. I stalled the car maybe 20 times in front of the guys house, and then finally managed to drive it home jerking all the way...through construction zones...with lines of traffic behind me. Yeah, it was pretty bad. It only took a few days before my leg got the hang of it though and I was doing fine in no time.

Aug 3, 06 - Ripped off for the first time when I pay $500 for spark plug boots ($100 x 5). I later learn they are $5 each online. This is only the beginning.

Oct 2006 - The ignition switch breaks (common issue I later learn) and without realizing it I drive the car with the starter motor engaged, destroying the starter. The car sits on the street at my moms house for a little while. My mom and I try to push start it with the car in first gear but that fails horribly. I later learn I should have used second or third for a push start. Mom and I nearly die pushing the 3800 lb car back up a hill to get it back to the house to park it.

Around this time I discover the forum and this community, and I'm able to get help from a fellow S6 owner in the city. We tow the car to his place and install a new starter and ignition switch in his garage (mom doesn't have a garage). Somehow when this work is being done the oil pressure sensor is knocked and disconnected. Thus begins a new chapter...

Oct 31, 06 - The instrument cluster is now warning about oil pressure, and I'm freaking out though the car seems totally drivable. I have a dealer inspect the car. They give me some BS story about needing a ton of work done and a bunch of parts. I decline.

Nov 7, 06 - I go to a non-dealer Audi specialist, Two Square Auto, to have them inspect the car to see what's going on. I suggest they check the instrument cluster connections (since we had the cluster out to do the ignition switch). They do $560 worth of testing and find nothing. A few days later I buy Stabilant 22A which is a liquid that is supposed to improve electrical connections and use it on the instrument cluster connections. It doesn't help. At this point in time I'm confident that there is no actual oil pressure issue, so I resume driving the car normally with the instrument cluster beeping at me.

Dec 13, 06 - The car has starting issues indicating the fuel pump is about to fail (a common issue I learned about on the forums). Rather than mess with gasoline to change it myself I take the car back to Two Square. They install a new pump at my request (and skip the diagnosis).

Jan 12, 07 - I have the car back at Two Square for misc maintenance and more tests. They discover the oil pressure sender was disconnected and simply plug it back in. I refuse to pay the labor on that, since they should have found it sooner. With the "discount" another $422 is spent. I should have fought for more of a discount...

March 28, 07 - More starting issues after the new fuel pump was in, so I take it back to Two Square and they install a new fuel pressure regulator, which I think fixes the issue.

May 3, 07 - I finally get some proper summer tires (and rims for them) as I've been driving on nearly bald 15" summer tires since buying the car.

May 10, 07 - I'm now renting a house with a garage, and so I begin doing my own work. A friend and I change the valve cover gasket to fix an oil leak, and install a stiffer engine snub mount. We also install a TDS-1 boost gauge.

July 17, 07 - Around this time I have a front shock lose it's oil, which causes it to perform very poorly as a shock. After checking the price of replacement shocks I decide to just buy a set of after market sport shocks and lowering springs and do the works. Over the next few months I gradually gather car parts for the suspension work, and also begin buying parts in preparation for installing a Porsche "Big Black" brake kit.

Oct 28, 07 - The sport suspension is installed. Unfortunately, by the time I got it on the car the damaged shock had already rattled a bunch of other parts and I needed additional suspension parts and bushings. These would be installed in the future...several times. Fortunately, I'm now done working with Two Square and have discovered "Kuks", a local mechanic who is trusted by the guys in the local sports car club. He does all the work I need at a fraction of the price and I can bring parts to him that I've bought online.

Nov 21, 07 - I buy a proper set of hardcore winter tires with cheap rims and winter driving becomes a lot of fun.

Nov 29, 07 - I fix the drivers seat heater again. The drivers seat has two heater elements. One was burnt out when I bought the car and I had it replaced. Then the other one went, causing the job to have to be done again.

Dec 26, 07 - The thermostat fails. I do the work myself in the garage and save a bunch of money.

Jan 20, 08 - Additional suspension bushings are replaced to try and fix the rattling that continues to plague me. It had started way back when that shock first lost it's oil.

May 8, 08 - Bought an MRC Stage 2 ECU chip. Installed it myself with a little help from some friends at work.

Jun 4, 08 - Bought more suspension parts. I keep breaking strut mounts.

Sept 4, 08 - I finally get the Porsche Big Black brake kit installed, along with some more suspension parts to try and correct the suspension clunk.

Sept 28, 08 - More suspension parts installed.

Oct 28, 08 - My POS coils begin to die (though I didn't know it at the time). As a result the car drives normally under low boost but power cuts out hard at high boost. Whenever boost levels hit 16 PSI or so the power just cuts out. I end up driving the car with light throttle to avoid the problem. I take the car back to Two Square to investigate. They declare they found no problems with it at all, even after a test drive, and then charge me for the time. I continue to drive the car with poor coils.

Jan 14, 09 - My clutch pedal slams to the floor and stays there on a cold winter day and I'm unable to shift. I limp my car to a local mechanic who installs a new master cylinder.

Jan 30, 09 - I have a hunch that my power issues are caused by bad POS coils and so I take action and buy a new set of "EFI Express" POS coils (non-Audi coils from a GM LS engine that are much cheaper, but functionally identical/superior). I install them in mid February on a downtown street outside my apartment and fix my power issues. Suddenly I have SO MUCH power at full boost and driving is fun again.

July 23, 09 - My coolant reservoir under the hood gets a leak and slowly looses coolant as I drive. I buy a new one at the dealer and replace it.

Aug 2009 - Just after replacing the coolant reservoir everything was running lovely. My suspension issues had been fixed, my power was back, it was all good. And then while driving in traffic on a hot August day the heater core broke. The little plastic connector that sticks out of the core broke off and all the coolant was lost, stranding me. Kuks sent his son out to load the car on a trailer and haul it back to his garage for free where he took a look. In order to keep me on the road he rerouted the coolant hoses around the core so that the engine would continue to function (but without interior heat).

September 2009 - At this point in time I lost my patience with the car. I was trying to save a down payment for a house purchase, and having owned the car for only three years it had almost always been in a bad state and costing me money. So, I went out and bought a new car. My new car was a 2009 Saturn Astra XR (AKA Opel Astra). I got it during Saturns "Going out of business sale" and was able to pick up a brand new car for about 15 grand after tax (saved about $10,000 off the typical price). It's not fancy, but it's cheap. I've been driving it since.

I removed the easy to remove parts from the Audi (brakes, Samco hoses, Aluminum pedals, rims) and the Audi was parked and listed for sale, along with the parts. I didn't want to fix the heater core as that would be another $1500 or more to accomplish, so I would sell it damaged. Over the next year the Audi sat in a snow bank as I gradually lowered my asking price. First it was $10,000, then 9, 8, 7, 6, etc. I had one person interested in flying to Calgary to buy it for around $8,000 on a whim, but I hesitated and only a few days later he bought a different car instead. The car was in great shape aside from the heater core, but it seems that nobody wants a car without heat. As the car sat in the cold over the winter the battery died, so I also had to buy a new one of those. It was so sad having it sit there.

Finally on Nov 25, 2010, over a year later, I was finally able to sell the car for a pitiful $4,240 to some guy who didn't seem to care about how special it really was. It was a painful sale. The parts continued to sell slowly, and took an additional year to fully sell. The last part was sold on Oct 24, 2011.

Once I had parked the Audi I immediately began saving money much faster than before and in just 6 months I was able to buy a house with my new down payment money. That didn't change the fact that I still wish I could have kept the car. If only I had a garage where I could have stored it and worked on it on the side. Somehow, I loved that car.




Now here's a quick examination of the numbers in the 3 years of ownership. The car was used almost exclusively for commuting to and from work and I rarely went on highway trips.

Total cost of fuel - $6,518.53
Total car expenses - $22,082.57 (includes purchase price minus selling price)
Total cost of ownership - $28,601.10
Average cost per month (Aug 2006 - Sep 2009) - $773

Mileage - Typically I'd get between 16 and 18 MPG with stop and go city driving (and I drive aggressively). Highway driving approached 25 MPG. Interesting to note - in the mileage graph you see some high spikes around Sept 2008. This was a long highway trip. Shortly after this trip the new EFI POS coils were installed. From this point on mileage drops to between 13 and 16 MPG. It's not an engine problem, it's because I now have more boost and I'm having more fun.

Look at the Cumulative Expense chart and see how things rise continually right up to the point where I park the car. Sigh.


So, that's it, the final report. F**k, I'm tearing up.


Jonny K

UrS4boy

Your story was a sad one from almost day one. Two Square and whoever else ripped you off, e.g. the $500 for the coil to plug boots, attests to your innocent/trusting nature. But why you went back there after that, I cannot conceive. As the Chinese say, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me".

Moral: At this point in time (i.e. the UrS4s are approaching 20 years old and the newest UrS6 is 15 years old), unless you can do most of the mechanical and electrical work on an UrS4 or UrS6 yourself, the cost of ownership can be very high. I don't think your numbers are typical, I think they are exceptional, in the bad sense.

Hope life treats you better in the future.

Jonny K

I went back to Two Square because I lacked options. There was only one Audi dealer in the city and they were out of the question. Regarding non-dealer experts, there was only a few shops in the city I could find. I investigated all of them, and the majority of them weren't great. Most of the time they wouldn't even give me the time of day, they were so busy that I couldn't even get a quote for work. Two Square was the only place I could actually go to who would look at it. That was, until I found Kuks. Even then he wasn't an expert, so I had to routinely give him instructions (from the forum) to help him do the job. I also did as much work as I could on the street, but that was tricky. Having my engine taken apart with the car parked on a street in Downtown Calgary isn't a great idea, even though I did it.


Jonny K

GoHeels

Jonny, your story scares the hell out of me. Perhaps I should cash in on my good fortunes and not press my luck any further.

I've had 2 UrS cars in this same timeframe, and I rack-up about 6k miles a year. I spent $4,500 on the S4 in 2006 and had it 3 years. I did a major timing-belt service right off the bat for $1,024, and less than $1,000 in other regular services over the 3 years. I sold it for $4,200. (I'm not including things like tires and gas)

The S6 I've had for 3 years I bought in Denver for $4,750, and have spent about $1,400 on it , including the same LS2 ignition kit you mention, an ignition switch, some door trim, a water-manifold mistake, and some suspension work. It had just gotten a $3,800 service from Modern Speciallist in Denver, for a blown timing-belt a year before I bought it. The guy traded it in on a new S5. The S4 came with a MTM stage 1+, which is now on the S6, so I transferred the good stuff over.

It sounds like you really miss your Audi, and I'm sorry to hear you had bad luck with it, I imagine you payed much more than I did initially to buy your S6, and that is where a lot of your expense went. Along with some upgrades that weren't truly necessary, like Big-Brakes. If you get the right house with the right garage and want to try again, take your time and find a nice starter S6 for $6,000 or less. And with your new expertise and resources, I bet you can drive it for a fraction of what you experienced the first time around. And if you never want to even see another S6 again as long as you live, that's understandable too

Cheers and good luck with your Saturn - CStowe

UrS6

I'm sorry to hear you retired the old girl, I always enjoyed reading the updates on your site.

I have a '97 S6 as well and I haven't had nearly the issues that you have...luck of the draw I suppose. Aside from oil changes, I haven't spent a dime on repairs (knock wood) for at least 3 years! Your issues with Two Square are a nice cautionary tale, but aside from the dealer, I don't think we have too many other choices in YYC.

As an earlier poster stated, I know that mine will likely have a non-cost effective issue in the future and I may become that "teary eyed" seller, but for now KCCO!

UrS4boy

Hello!! Are you on the 1997 UrS6 registry? Do you want to be hooked into the BC/Alta/Sask UrS email list? (There are UrS owners in Calgary and Edmonton on the the list).

eightyhorsepower

It's interesting to think if it's luck or destiny that creates a situation like yours.
Some may blame it on the age of the car or the fact that it's German.
I know I've had a similar experience w/ a 1980 Mercedes-Benz 280se. I wanted to say that the car was 'cursed', but i'm not sure what it was. As well, my 1987 BMW 325is was a high maintenance car.

1997Urs6

Since you chose to speak so poorly of me in your final post, allow me to rebuttal.
Since buying this gem of a car, here is my list of repairs.
I had the heater core replaced, auxiliary water pump, clutch replaced since you burnt it out, water pump, timing belt, tensioner, strut mounts and pivot rings, front lower control arms and ball joints as the bushings were beat to **** so parts were unsalvageable, rear main seal, rear camber links, which were seized, new 034 turbo lines, new rear calipers as they were also seized, fuel supply line which had been pinched and cut out then rigged together with some non fuel/chemical resistant rubber hose and clamps, s/s braided brake lines as the ones on it were ready to pop, coolant lines, hood as the 3m tape created a moisture trap and had holes rusted out under the grill and it is currently awaiting a complete motor rebuild as a leak down test revealed 33percent compression loss in the first cylinder, which I could only attribute to the 23 lbs of boost you were forcing to the motor with plugs gapped to about 10 and carboned to ****...never mind the incorrectly mounted air filter which I'm sure allowed some nasty **** to make it into the chamber. Now, tell everyone again how the guy you sold it to didn't give a **** about this rare gem of a car !!!!

1997Urs6

So, not including the 3" turbo back s/s 034 exhaust and the 18" gun metal grey RS6 rims I have also put on this car. My repair costs are up around 10 grand and I have another 8 grand to put out yet for the motor rebuild. So take your cost chart and put it you know where, cuz it doesn't compare to the money I have dropped into this car and that's just for the repairs it needed and I'm still not done. So which of us clearly took better care of this car. Audi world members, I'll let you be the judge.

Jonny K

1997Urs6,

If you are indeed the person I sold the car to three years ago, then I am happy to hear that you do indeed know about the car and care for it. I didn't get that impression when I sold it to you, especially when I offered to introduce you into this great Audi community and you showed no interest. I was always at the mercy of shops and lacked the expertise to examine the car for myself. If the shop told me it was fine, then that's all I knew. I was only able to tackle a few easy jobs myself.

As for a few of the things you mentioned:

Yes, the hood was in rough shape from before I had originally bought it. The car was originally bought somewhere in Ontario and drove around in the salt for a while, before coming to Alberta where an oil CEO drove it down gravel roads all the time. When I bought the car from him I asked how often he washed it. He basically didn't. I did the best I could with that rusty hood, trying to polish and wax around it, and also got a quote to replace it, but the cost was too high for me at the time. At one point on the forums people were trying to organize a one time custom carbon fiber hood production run, but we never got enough people together to make it work.

I have no knowledge of the clutch ever having been replaced before I owned the car. Several times I asked shops if the clutch was good, and they told me it was. It functioned fine for me.

The belt tensioner needed replacing (it made a noise), but my mechanic informed me that things would be fine if I left it and it would be costly to change, so we left it although I would have liked to fix it.

I had numerous issues with the bushings and suspension parts and had many of them changed several times at much cost. It's good that you knew how to fix them, when my mechanic didn't after so many tries.

I know nothing about the rear calipers being seized, no inspection revealed any problem with them, and I even had the rear pads changed at one point with no indication of a problem.

And lastly on the topic of engine compression, in November of 2006 while troubleshooting the oil pressure light "Two Square Auto" performed a leak down test as well, which also revealed the same compression loss. This was shortly after I had bought the car and years before boost pressure was raised. They told me the numbers looked good for an older car and advised no action.


After three years of ownership this car had cost me $22,000, so it's great to hear that you've only had to spend $10,000 yourself.

Good luck,


Jonny K