Intro/Auto start - major throttle lag issue
06-21-2019, 11:37 AM
#131
06-23-2019, 10:45 AM
#132
AudiWorld Junior Member
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LAG Problem on Audi Q8
Well that's troubling...to say the least. To be fair, I've never driven a car with start/stop and didn't turn off the feature immediately, I hate it and there's always a lag. With that said 3 seconds is unacceptable. Do you guys think this is a simple fix from Audi on existing cars or is it permanent and you better hope your particular Q8 doesn't have that issue? My car is due to arrive in a couple of weeks and wondering if this issue has been addressed.
06-24-2019, 09:59 AM
#133
AudiWorld Senior Member
What temp? I’ve driven in 100 degrees and the car is fine. Also when you say the idle jumps to 1k in the heat is this issue related to the Auto S/S system?
06-24-2019, 01:12 PM
#134
This is shared from Beefchopper on the Rennlist forum under 2019 Cayenne.
From all of us-- your clients.
I'm sure Porsche is well aware that the vast majority of their customers hate start stop and many if not most find it annoying and turn it off each time they drive. If fuel economy was of high importance to you would you be buying a Porsche (especially a Cayenne)? The reason they force you to keep turning it off yourself is that the EPA gas mileage improvement (minimal as it is) from using a start stop system can only be claimed by the auto manufacturers when they calculate their corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) calculations if the start stop defaults to being on each time the car starts..
From Car and Driver:
"Automakers get incentives to do it this way from the Environmental Protection Agency. If the vehicle's stop/start system is nonlatching and automatically turns on whenever you start the car, the EPA's fuel-economy test results will be calculated only when the system is engaged. But if a vehicle's stop/start system can be permanently turned off, then the vehicle's fuel economy is tested both when stop/start is active and when it's off. The EPA then averages the two tests for a resulting fuel-economy rating found on the car's window sticker--which is certain to be lower.
Since stop/start is estimated to boost fuel economy by 4 to 5 percent using the EPA test cycle, according to Buick, obviously it has a positive effect on the fuel-economy rating. Carmakers who have nonlatching stop/start systems also qualify for additional "off cycle" emissions credits from the EPA, and those can be applied to meet their overall targets for Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards."
So, start/stop improving fuel economy per EPA guidelines and the EPA creating this incentive causes the auto manufacturers chose between the government and clients (customers). The above helps explain the 'falling on deaf ears' when Audi is contacted. Will the EPA step up and accept liability when this effort leads to injury and death. Of course not......the auto makers ....lemmings....happily going over the cliff.
My previous point......Why must I press a button after starting my car to IMPROVE my safety/save my life??
I have asked Audi C/S......silence........
My dealer just.says the car works as engineered.
From all of us-- your clients.
I'm sure Porsche is well aware that the vast majority of their customers hate start stop and many if not most find it annoying and turn it off each time they drive. If fuel economy was of high importance to you would you be buying a Porsche (especially a Cayenne)? The reason they force you to keep turning it off yourself is that the EPA gas mileage improvement (minimal as it is) from using a start stop system can only be claimed by the auto manufacturers when they calculate their corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) calculations if the start stop defaults to being on each time the car starts..
From Car and Driver:
"Automakers get incentives to do it this way from the Environmental Protection Agency. If the vehicle's stop/start system is nonlatching and automatically turns on whenever you start the car, the EPA's fuel-economy test results will be calculated only when the system is engaged. But if a vehicle's stop/start system can be permanently turned off, then the vehicle's fuel economy is tested both when stop/start is active and when it's off. The EPA then averages the two tests for a resulting fuel-economy rating found on the car's window sticker--which is certain to be lower.
Since stop/start is estimated to boost fuel economy by 4 to 5 percent using the EPA test cycle, according to Buick, obviously it has a positive effect on the fuel-economy rating. Carmakers who have nonlatching stop/start systems also qualify for additional "off cycle" emissions credits from the EPA, and those can be applied to meet their overall targets for Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards."
So, start/stop improving fuel economy per EPA guidelines and the EPA creating this incentive causes the auto manufacturers chose between the government and clients (customers). The above helps explain the 'falling on deaf ears' when Audi is contacted. Will the EPA step up and accept liability when this effort leads to injury and death. Of course not......the auto makers ....lemmings....happily going over the cliff.
My previous point......Why must I press a button after starting my car to IMPROVE my safety/save my life??
I have asked Audi C/S......silence........
My dealer just.says the car works as engineered.
06-24-2019, 01:32 PM
#135
I totally agree. And for such a minimal savings I’ll never use that system for the annoyance it is. I cannot get used to the I’m stalling feeling.
This is is very different from the lag issue.
I do not believe based on my extended test driving of the Q8 that the stop start is the issue. I’m no engineer but I am a car guy and I own and have owned a lot of cars and to me it feels like the transmission is in too high of a gear to allow the car to accelerate at the speed one would expect this vehicle to proceed at with the petal pressure applied. When that delay occurs while to computer is figuring out what is NOT happening and starts clicking down the gears but by the time your right foot command is obeyed you can be TBoned or have heart failure. Neither of which I signed up for when I specd our an 84k Q8.i did not but because Audi says car Works as designed.
My 2019 BMW has the start stop but no throttle lag. My 2017 BMW allowed for total shut down of the start stop system. I wish I could achieve that with out coding. I just turn it off after I start. It’s al it’s a habit now.
This is is very different from the lag issue.
I do not believe based on my extended test driving of the Q8 that the stop start is the issue. I’m no engineer but I am a car guy and I own and have owned a lot of cars and to me it feels like the transmission is in too high of a gear to allow the car to accelerate at the speed one would expect this vehicle to proceed at with the petal pressure applied. When that delay occurs while to computer is figuring out what is NOT happening and starts clicking down the gears but by the time your right foot command is obeyed you can be TBoned or have heart failure. Neither of which I signed up for when I specd our an 84k Q8.i did not but because Audi says car Works as designed.
My 2019 BMW has the start stop but no throttle lag. My 2017 BMW allowed for total shut down of the start stop system. I wish I could achieve that with out coding. I just turn it off after I start. It’s al it’s a habit now.
This is shared from Beefchopper on the Rennlist forum under 2019 Cayenne.
From all of us-- your clients.
I'm sure Porsche is well aware that the vast majority of their customers hate start stop and many if not most find it annoying and turn it off each time they drive. If fuel economy was of high importance to you would you be buying a Porsche (especially a Cayenne)? The reason they force you to keep turning it off yourself is that the EPA gas mileage improvement (minimal as it is) from using a start stop system can only be claimed by the auto manufacturers when they calculate their corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) calculations if the start stop defaults to being on each time the car starts..
From Car and Driver:
"Automakers get incentives to do it this way from the Environmental Protection Agency. If the vehicle's stop/start system is nonlatching and automatically turns on whenever you start the car, the EPA's fuel-economy test results will be calculated only when the system is engaged. But if a vehicle's stop/start system can be permanently turned off, then the vehicle's fuel economy is tested both when stop/start is active and when it's off. The EPA then averages the two tests for a resulting fuel-economy rating found on the car's window sticker--which is certain to be lower.
Since stop/start is estimated to boost fuel economy by 4 to 5 percent using the EPA test cycle, according to Buick, obviously it has a positive effect on the fuel-economy rating. Carmakers who have nonlatching stop/start systems also qualify for additional "off cycle" emissions credits from the EPA, and those can be applied to meet their overall targets for Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards."
So, start/stop improving fuel economy per EPA guidelines and the EPA creating this incentive causes the auto manufacturers chose between the government and clients (customers). The above helps explain the 'falling on deaf ears' when Audi is contacted. Will the EPA step up and accept liability when this effort leads to injury and death. Of course not......the auto makers ....lemmings....happily going over the cliff.
My previous point......Why must I press a button after starting my car to IMPROVE my safety/save my life??
I have asked Audi C/S......silence........
My dealer just.says the car works as engineered.
From all of us-- your clients.
I'm sure Porsche is well aware that the vast majority of their customers hate start stop and many if not most find it annoying and turn it off each time they drive. If fuel economy was of high importance to you would you be buying a Porsche (especially a Cayenne)? The reason they force you to keep turning it off yourself is that the EPA gas mileage improvement (minimal as it is) from using a start stop system can only be claimed by the auto manufacturers when they calculate their corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) calculations if the start stop defaults to being on each time the car starts..
From Car and Driver:
"Automakers get incentives to do it this way from the Environmental Protection Agency. If the vehicle's stop/start system is nonlatching and automatically turns on whenever you start the car, the EPA's fuel-economy test results will be calculated only when the system is engaged. But if a vehicle's stop/start system can be permanently turned off, then the vehicle's fuel economy is tested both when stop/start is active and when it's off. The EPA then averages the two tests for a resulting fuel-economy rating found on the car's window sticker--which is certain to be lower.
Since stop/start is estimated to boost fuel economy by 4 to 5 percent using the EPA test cycle, according to Buick, obviously it has a positive effect on the fuel-economy rating. Carmakers who have nonlatching stop/start systems also qualify for additional "off cycle" emissions credits from the EPA, and those can be applied to meet their overall targets for Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards."
So, start/stop improving fuel economy per EPA guidelines and the EPA creating this incentive causes the auto manufacturers chose between the government and clients (customers). The above helps explain the 'falling on deaf ears' when Audi is contacted. Will the EPA step up and accept liability when this effort leads to injury and death. Of course not......the auto makers ....lemmings....happily going over the cliff.
My previous point......Why must I press a button after starting my car to IMPROVE my safety/save my life??
I have asked Audi C/S......silence........
My dealer just.says the car works as engineered.
Last edited by Jsf721; 06-24-2019 at 01:34 PM.
06-25-2019, 03:23 AM
#136
Called a local ABT tuning facility. Was told the delay is due to turbo lag. Adding a tune that is not available yet will do nothing for lag. The way the turbo works since it is a single turbo needs time to build up before power is delivered. Also he said it will take a while before their tune is available on Q8 since the engine is not available in Europe. Said unless the company pays to get one there which costs a lot don't expect it.
As for auto start/stop, I asked if a tune would deactivate that, his response was most likely no but would be up to tune manufacturer, if they can crack the code. Highly doubtful according to him.
As for auto start/stop, I asked if a tune would deactivate that, his response was most likely no but would be up to tune manufacturer, if they can crack the code. Highly doubtful according to him.
06-25-2019, 03:45 AM
#137
Have you driven the Q8. This is throttle lag not turbo lag. Off the line from a stop the Q8 is not terrible. It is terrible when you are rolling and coasting down from say 50 to 20 something and get back into the gas. That’s where the crazy 2-3 seconds of nothing happens.
To me that’s not the turbo. It’s a fuel saving computer program cashing the transmission to be in too high a gear and by the time it realizes you not moving and makes a correction you saved 2 mpg and almost got T vines making a left or had a hart attack wit a close call.
A tune tune of the engine sound help performance but unless it addresses the way the tranny handles the pre set coating gear program it won’t solve much.
QUOTE=lungs414;25334524]Called a local ABT tuning facility. Was told the delay is due to turbo lag. Adding a tune that is not available yet will do nothing for lag. The way the turbo works since it is a single turbo needs time to build up before power is delivered. Also he said it will take a while before their tune is available on Q8 since the engine is not available in Europe. Said unless the company pays to get one there which costs a lot don't expect it.
As for auto start/stop, I asked if a tune would deactivate that, his response was most likely no but would be up to tune manufacturer, if they can crack the code. Highly doubtful according to him.[/QUOTE]
To me that’s not the turbo. It’s a fuel saving computer program cashing the transmission to be in too high a gear and by the time it realizes you not moving and makes a correction you saved 2 mpg and almost got T vines making a left or had a hart attack wit a close call.
A tune tune of the engine sound help performance but unless it addresses the way the tranny handles the pre set coating gear program it won’t solve much.
QUOTE=lungs414;25334524]Called a local ABT tuning facility. Was told the delay is due to turbo lag. Adding a tune that is not available yet will do nothing for lag. The way the turbo works since it is a single turbo needs time to build up before power is delivered. Also he said it will take a while before their tune is available on Q8 since the engine is not available in Europe. Said unless the company pays to get one there which costs a lot don't expect it.
As for auto start/stop, I asked if a tune would deactivate that, his response was most likely no but would be up to tune manufacturer, if they can crack the code. Highly doubtful according to him.[/QUOTE]
06-25-2019, 09:03 AM
#138
AudiWorld Member
Have you driven the Q8. This is throttle lag not turbo lag. Off the line from a stop the Q8 is not terrible. It is terrible when you are rolling and coasting down from say 50 to 20 something and get back into the gas. That’s where the crazy 2-3 seconds of nothing happens.
To me that’s not the turbo. It’s a fuel saving computer program cashing the transmission to be in too high a gear and by the time it realizes you not moving and makes a correction you saved 2 mpg and almost got T vines making a left or had a hart attack wit a close call.
To me that’s not the turbo. It’s a fuel saving computer program cashing the transmission to be in too high a gear and by the time it realizes you not moving and makes a correction you saved 2 mpg and almost got T vines making a left or had a hart attack wit a close call.
It's interesting that you say that. My experience is that off the line is the issue. That's where I've noticed it - probably due to my need to stop at the end of a road and take a left turn into traffic every morning. There's definitely an issue there which can be mostly alleviated thru remembering to disable the stop/start feature. I've also - but much more intermittently - experienced what you describe, but given my daily driving routine (no highways) I wouldn't have that happen too often. Regardless, I think there's general agreement that there are some serious issues with how the car performs in a situation where you need it to perform - and that issue can be a real danger to the Q8 in question as well as other cars in its vicinity when the problem arises.
06-25-2019, 09:25 AM
#139
Couple things on this:
1. What do you need to do to disable start/stop.
2. In one of the articles listed in this thread, a person commented that when they slow down and then speed up like to turn into a side street, all you have to do is to remember to take your feet off the pedal and then press on the pedal again and it doesn't happen. No clue if that helps.
Thanks.
Steve
1. What do you need to do to disable start/stop.
2. In one of the articles listed in this thread, a person commented that when they slow down and then speed up like to turn into a side street, all you have to do is to remember to take your feet off the pedal and then press on the pedal again and it doesn't happen. No clue if that helps.
Thanks.
Steve
06-25-2019, 09:26 AM
#140
Agreed. It’s a shame. I passed on the Q8 for me. But I am staying on the forum beicase I’d consider buy this for my wife as soon as the issues are resolved. First it needs to be fixed and then she needs to like it.
It's interesting that you say that. My experience is that off the line is the issue. That's where I've noticed it - probably due to my need to stop at the end of a road and take a left turn into traffic every morning. There's definitely an issue there which can be mostly alleviated thru remembering to disable the stop/start feature. I've also - but much more intermittently - experienced what you describe, but given my daily driving routine (no highways) I wouldn't have that happen too often. Regardless, I think there's general agreement that there are some serious issues with how the car performs in a situation where you need it to perform - and that issue can be a real danger to the Q8 in question as well as other cars in its vicinity when the problem arises.[/QUOTE]
It's interesting that you say that. My experience is that off the line is the issue. That's where I've noticed it - probably due to my need to stop at the end of a road and take a left turn into traffic every morning. There's definitely an issue there which can be mostly alleviated thru remembering to disable the stop/start feature. I've also - but much more intermittently - experienced what you describe, but given my daily driving routine (no highways) I wouldn't have that happen too often. Regardless, I think there's general agreement that there are some serious issues with how the car performs in a situation where you need it to perform - and that issue can be a real danger to the Q8 in question as well as other cars in its vicinity when the problem arises.[/QUOTE]
