Kris Hansen

The current rash of problems we're seeing with the site are the direct result of an "update" which suffered some kind of problem related to the threaded view that we run. Apparently it's based on old code, which is clashing with the new code that was installed.

If any of you are using threaded view, unfortunately it looks like it's going away. I'm going to be sending messages to the users we know to be using it, but that list is based on POSTS, not on lurkers, so if you lurk, and you like threaded view, let us know.

Thanks!

MP4.2+6.0

It seems to be for me. I tried stuff like clearing cache, logging out and the like. No joy.

Yes I care about it, as you have heard from me before. This is a very big issue for me, strong enough that this may finally be the proverbial straw that has me move on. I think I have made the same point before. Linear just does not work for me and never has.

Kris Hansen

Yeah.. Well as I said in my original post, threaded view was on old code, and was not compatible with the current build. And there are literally only 7 people out of the entire list of user who actually use threaded view, myself included. I'm not happy about it either, but it is what it is. There isn't enough need to justify rewriting that code apparently.

Sorry.

MP4.2+6.0

So, this is proving to be a real double whammy for me if threaded view is indeed DOA. I haven't posted yet on the D3 board where I spend most of my time, but this has literally brought my posting--both new content and replies to a 100% standstill already.

The new double whammy to me is what ever linear view actually even is in its native form. What I see right now on my screen for a forum is just a starting title for a thread, the newest poster and how many replies. As in exactly the same Tom Dick and Harry stuff as most other forums out there, and almost all of which I have lost interest in. Not just reading, but actively contributing. When I used to switch to linear view before, if I recall correctly I could still be the overall thread structure--who replied, any titles they added (or the beginning words), etc. I used to have to switch to it once the reply levels got too deep--it would say "more replies below current depth" With linear I could then see those, while with threaded you had to click on the subject of a given reply to get to it.

So the double whammy for someone who posts and replies A LOT is I can no longer really see what is going on in a thread without clicking on the main title and then wading through the replies. I did change my sort order to newest first just now, but that doesn't really help. Underneath FWIW, I can already see the issue being problematic for me for several reasons:

• before in a thread you could often see by either the titles and/or the nesting levels if some comment was already dealt with, and you could just move past/ignore it, or +1 it.
• on a board like the D3 one there are some known experienced posters like Mishar, Mister Bally, me, a guy in Finland and a few others coming along. Thus if they replied, it was likewise probably covered, or at least I would want to see what they said before replying myself. Before I could see in a flash any post replies by name in the thread outline. Again, unless I'm missing something now it seems like that is gone too, even when I was switching to linear before and could still see the outline of the thread.
• likewise on a board with diverse member experience--sometime as simple as knowledgable vs. noob, but sometimes language issues, or odd points of view coming through repeatedly, or a poster just not listening over time to repeated constructive suggestions, you could see them posting or replying, and then variously frankly kind of ignore that part of the thread, or let someone else work with them, or jump in yourself if you could sense they were off in an odd direction or struggling with language or whatever.

Net, without some kind of at least a better outline of what the thread looks like overall, including the kind of view I used to get even when I switched to linear view, it makes it very hard for me to go forward. It goes beyond original content posting but right to the heart of trying to participate and quasi lead with some others on a board. In plain English, unless I am missing something or just need to tweak some setting, if no more threaded also means no ability to even see the overall outline of a thread, that is a lot more problematic for my style of use and participation.

Let the powers that be know, and yes please let me know if there is some change I can make to my settings that resonates with the kind of things I am mentioning here. Meantime, I am continuing to do my own homework, checking out how it would work on AW going forward. Likewise asking over on QW where their picture posting set up is--in my view their biggest shortcoming (besides lighter and sometimes almost no traffic on many boards). Based on whatever I can figure out and learn, I'll decide what to do going forward on participating in this or other sites.

Thanks.

Kris Hansen

Ah, I should have mentioned, if you have threaded view selected still, you'll want to turn that off, it prevents the linear from showing correctly.

I know there used to be a built in "threaded" view in VB, which I think they turned off to make our old threaded view work, I have to see if they can get that working again, I think it will help.

MP4.2+6.0

This is a screen shot I just took. Notice I am logged in. Just initial post titles, total replies and most recent thread responder. No outline of any thread like I used to see. It's like I am not even logged in in terms of the views I used to get if for some reason my log in was lost like if I wiped cookies.

Technically if it helps, I am on a Mac w/ current OS level and Safari. I changed the view option to linear (newest first) in the User Control Panel (CP)/Edit Options area, and I restarted AW in case that was a hang up. I have it set the same way now (linear) in the pull down menu you see when you are inside a thread on the bar above the post on the far right under "Display Modes."

Later edit: I also later restarted my Mac completely, restarted Safari, cleared the cache, cleared recent browser history and cleared the specific AudiWorld cookie (but not all, if by chance AW has other ones lurking under more cryptic names). Then I restarted AW after having been logged out before I closed and wiped stuff. After I logged in, my display is still like below.

Bob Petruska

You should post this change as a 'sticky" on each forum and get the feedback from all viewers. I just can't see how anyone views a thread with continuity without "threaded" view. I tried reading the forums today and it gave me such a headache making any sense as who is posting to who. I went over to Quattroworld to relax in threaded view.

Please rethink your decision here!

Kris Hansen

Bob, preaching to the choir. I was one of the 7 users who posted in the last month with Threaded mode active. It is sadly not my decision, and I know the folks at IB don't want to upset the users any more, but I fear it's not something they are likely to spend money on for 7 users. Myself included. Then again, we didn't think it was possible before either.

MP4.2+6.0

I do hope they understand in some cases--like mine--this is not just about 7 users, but rather about content creation, postings and replies that drive traffic, and so on. If key people on various boards evaporate and their respective content, postings, etc. head elsewhere, the multiplier effect is pretty apparent to me. Even if they just lose interest, its a meaningful negative as an "it's just business" analysis. On the Q5 board, Bob is one (and to a minor extent me; I've gotten tired of the caricature "floor mat" and 20" wheel type new car posts there). On the D3 board--way more active than the D4 board--at the 80% type level that's me and a relatively small handful of others. Sure its a small board, but a deep knowledge one that maybe reflects some of the owner demographics and sophistication, as was the D2 board back in its prime.

Content is value and of course leads to traffic--or the absence thereof with little new content. If the change drives away folks who truly generate that, IB is being short sighted. Both for the immediate effect, but even if they think they can outlast it, then for the hurt feelings (users) and longer term reputational effects.

For the record, I do not think IB is proceeding here in the right fashion in terms of disclosing what is going on/playing out. And yes, please pass that on to them directly. Rather, this seems like hide the ball stuff, even if not directly intended as such. 6700 posts later and having ridden though the QW split--let alone knowing about it and being able to relate it--I think that's baloney. I appreciate you have been forthright, but then I had to figure out something was up to even ask. As Bob's post caused me to realize, there was no advance general communication, no proactive communication and the like. Even for the supposed "7" that apparently are known, no attempt to reach out one-on one. I don't think this is right, or the way to treat long time and hopefully valued forum members.

Nor frankly do I think the stats themselves tell the whole story since most users--like 95-99%+--seem ignorant these days there even was a choice of how to display. And, isn't "the game is kind of rigged" toward self fulfilling prophesies when the defaults are set the other way? Plus, not just that, but when I clicked the link the other day on the options page that supposedly explained it, when you pursued it there was nothing about it when you waded through the linked page. So, both the default is set the other way, and any information beyond old word of mouth about what the options (or benefits) actually were was missing.

Respectfully, I think the powers that be owe an apology. I kind of think pigs will fly as they say, but let's see. And regardless, they owe the ENTIRE community more forthright communication when unilateral changes and decisions like this get made that affect user and large volume content provider experiences. How about they start with this one, at least along the lines Bob suggests? In plain English, I expect few AW posters are hardly aware of what is discussed on this Feedback forum, let alone follow it even irregularly. No it won't be the wildfire anymore that was the origin of QW. But I would have hoped that experience would still be remembered for at least the importance of forthright and proactive communication. Remember of course the whole situation was much worse right near t=0 when AW did not communicate proactively, and at first responded slowly and begrudgingly. Besides scrambling (in a good way) to add options to the user interface, the healing started when it realized the classic learning that it was better to be straight sooner rather than later. I would hope that lesson would not be forgotten, then or now, and especially when at its core it is the same general interface sort of subject matter.

EHLO

I'd use threaded (or hybrid) now that I know about it.
I also noticed the help link no longer describes these options, and no wonder only a few use it with it not being the default.
This forum's software is most likely an off the shelf product, so I'm not sure why the view options are being limited, as it's probably just a configuration option.
Is it a documentation issue at IB to have their non experts understand how to maintain the software, and they don't feel the need to translate all of the settings from the developer's technical manual?
What is the specific reason?

How about keeping threaded, at minimum as a good faith gesture to the contributors such as MP4.2+6.0, who keep many more of us coming back day after day?

I assume cnn.com regretted their dumbed down interface change, maybe they have fixed it since, but I have found nytimes.com and I'm not looking back.