ryans4

...I would LOVE to race a spec series, but that's something I don't have the time or money to do at this point.

Maybe in the future.

For now, just like you, I get 1 maybe 2 events per year that I can spend driving, and for that time/money, a dedicated car is not logical. I like to go and drive my car within my limits and enjoy myself while learning how to drive better, and how to handle the car better.

I know I'm at risk of damage to the car, and potentially worse, and for that very reason, I keep it within "my limits", so as to focus my risk on outside influence as much as possible (other drives/cars/debris/conditions).

But I'm no fool, I know it's dangerous, and I think safety at ever HPDE event I've been to is lackluster at best. The Ambulance is for real, but that's about it.

NASA racer

of people who just want some fun at the track that are pretty unlikely to get hurt because of your own common sense.

Unfortunately there are an equal measure of hot-heads who are well on their way to making HPDE type events financially impossible due to insurance. The increase in fatalities may simply be due to the increase in participants but that doesn't minimize the cost of wrecked cars and people who are badly shaken or slightly injured in an environment where that seems to come as a surprise.

I don't think anyone ever stepped into a race car thinking "oh this is harmless, I couldn't possibly get hurt doing this" but people seem to do that all the time at HPDEs regardless of the speed of their cars. My buddy Ben (who was the guy who was killed in the CGT in June) was essentially a victim of a car that was capable of speeds far in excess of any safety equipment it was designed with AND the personal safety equipment of the occupants AND a track-day environment where he can attain 170mph doesn't mean it's sensible to do so...but the environment he was in fully encouraged it.

I really hate that he was killed because he easily had the means and time to have a fully-built race car and do the same thing safely.

NASA racer

we're not preaching "it's totally foolish, don't do it"...we're just saying that the moment you lose the perspective of what you're doing, your chances of being hurt or sustaining huge financial loss increase dramatically.

The whole idea that people can track their cars is a great thing but I believe that at a certain performance level or lack of restriction (no supervised instruction etc) that safety equipment should be manditory just like it is for every single race car. The lowliest IT car has to have safety equipment to get on the track, why doesn't the hugely modded fire-breathing street car?

There needs to be a cut-off point and some formalization of the distinction between guys like you and guys who are basically there "racing". Impact forces go up as the square of the speed so there is a definite safety distinction between guys who are well within their limits hitting 100 on the straight and guys hanging it all out hitting 150 on the straights.

Incidentally, don't discount karting arrive and drives. Though karts are certainly not "safe" either, the cost to fun ratio is high and I've been renting karts at a local kart track (a real kart track, not an indoor one) for open-lapping just to stay sharp and for a couple of hundred bucks, I can lap until I'm sick of it and too beat-up to continue heh. Many kart tracks have schools and rental programs which even include race rentals.

There are many options which may suit the low-time available but want to have fun on the track including renting race cars.

bioman

Exactly ... you just perfectly explained why I moved "up" to spec miata from a K04'd S4

ryans4

...though in re-reading my post I can see how it may seem like I'm defending the HPDE.

I've thought a lot about karts. A decent kart is well within my budget, even to outright own not just rent.

I guess I'm thinking i'm getting too old (29) to do karting. I've done plenty of slow indoor non-shifter karting to know it will beat you up pretty good, and I guess I'm worried about broken bones. Though to be fair to karting, I should do more research before just assuming I'd be better off in a "slow-reacting" street car w/ a cage.

But you bring up a good point, I know for the money, nothing can touch karting in terms of drive for the dollar.

NASA racer

I've been nursing some pretty badly bruised ribs for a couple of months but then again, I'm 41 and the downside of a rental is the seat may not fit perfectly heh.

With modern kart tracks having embedded timing strips, you can just do open days and your on-board timing will give you real-time laps so you can gauge your progress in-car and work on technique. It's a lot of fun and though racing anything gets expensive, karting track-days are cheaper and IMHO more "rewarding" because you have something which is doing a track-reletive speed on par with a Formula Atlantic or in the case of a shifter-kart, an Indy car.

Potomac-Greg

It's hard to do. I agree that some folks are not conscious of the risk they are taking, but others are fully aware. They are the same people riding crotch rockets at 90 MPH weaving through traffic. Life is a video game.

I remember being at VIR this Spring, watching the Red Group run (there was a Porsche GT) down the front straight. At least 1/2 the cars were exotic and/or trailer queens -- basically race cars but with no sanctioning safety organization. Lots of home-brew racers. I had a sudden realization that I had three kids and a wife at home, and they needed me alive a heck of a lot more than I needed to be on that track.

Potomac-Greg

Horsepower can make up for a lot of deficiencies.

Nogaro

Basically me and Pete went over all this over a phone call about the death of the guy in the Cerrra GT.

HPDE are nutz.

bioman

In practice it isn't clear it's working that well for me - the only people who call me fast are the one's who can't drive very well!!! It drives me nuts that I can't seem to break 1:05 at Lime Rock in that thing.

Really I got the miata (as opposed to another race car) cuz it's reliable and inexpensive