eMKay (BFLO)

I think I want to build myself, I know buying one already done is cheaper, but by building I could spread out the cost over a couple years, I'm not in a huge hurry to start as I am into autocrossing as well, I could add parts, go autocross, add more, go autocross etc...In between that I could get my SCCA license, then when the car is done, go race. Here are some I have been eyeballing, any other suggestions?

79-85 RX-7 ITA - 12B
84-86 318i ITB - lots of these around cheap
80-82 Corolla ITB - RWD, reliable
86 Audi 4000 ITB - can this thing compete? Would be different that's for sure
240Z ITS - expensive
88-91 Civic hatch ITC

Liam in Montreal

some cars wont be legal to race in certain series in say X years...you'll be falling into vintage classes or something

just something to think about if you're gonna take years to build a car.

also, from what I've seen personally..it's not always a good idea. it takes up space in your precious garage (or front lawn) and eventually you end up selling it because you saw a car "exactly like the one I'm building" for cheap.

imho, keep saving $, keep doing the other stuff to gain experience, and then when you take the plunge, take the plunge.

regards,
Liam

NASA racer

unless you have a mentor who is familiar with the cars, you are going to spend all your time and $$$ wrenching and blaming the car instead of getting out there and racing.

'round these parts ITA CRXs are ALL CONQUERING...no point even showing up with any other sort of car...there is a so. cal group which is actually known as the "CRX mafia" because they all share tech info and build nearly identical cars.

My advice is only buy cars that have won races (at least one race) and don't change them until you start winning (other than maintaining them).

If you want to be a mechanic, just go along and help people with their cars, if you want to RACE, you need some decent equipment that you KNOW would be competitive when you figure out how to drive it. Our Civic was bought by a guy who works for a mechanics education program so the car is going to be a "school" car and will be brought to a state of repair and maintenance it didn't see when we had it BUT the guy is NOT going to "change" it for exactly that reason. The car won races, until he can go faster than we did there's no reason to change anything.

And as Liam points out, SCCA is horrible about the cars having to be newish and expensive...NASA doesn't care about the cars age but resale will be a problem with an older car.

You might look around for rentals (seems to be a lot of spec miata rentals these days) to get your license and maybe run a couple of races BEFORE you think about owning a car...it's a huge commitment (trailer, tow vehicle, tools, time) that you don't want to throw away if it turns out you don't even really enjoy it that much for some reason.

NASA racer

generally less expensive and much lower storage/transport demands.

eMKay (BFLO)

the prep and building seems relatively simple if I get a popular model, like a CRX, RX-7 or 318. They are like autocross Neons, everyone already knows what works and what doesn't. You can't change gear ratios or engine specs, the cars are slow to start with in ITB and ITC, and they have strict weight limits. I would like to buy one already built, but I would also like to strip and prepare it myself. If I'm looking at say an 88-91 Civic DX hatch in ITC, they are a dime a dozen and I can get a rust free solid car for $700 or so. Suspension components are cheap, and I can buy a used cage (carefully of course) and other equipment.

NASA racer

"cant change gear ratios or engine specs"...we spent over $4000 on our Honda engine and it was completely IT legal.

As a project, it would be the least expensive sedan racing but be warned...the more "stock" appearing a class is, the more people cheat or push the limits of the rules. My co-driver ran a Datsun 510 and guys in his class had $20k cars back 10 years ago :-/

RSTPerformanceRacing

<center><img src="http://www.rstperformance.com/newpictures/rnhisp~2.jpg"></center><p>In the North East we have very competitive fields.

ITS is very expensive to be competitive (average field size is about 20 cars)
ITA is getting very expensive (average field size is probably 15+ cars
ITB Manageable costs for a low budget guy/girl (Average field size is about 14-15 cars)
ITC less expensive but not as much competition. (average field size is less than 10 cars)

So you're an Audi fan correct??? Well I am assuming you are since you are on the AudiWorld Forum; so build an Audi for ITB!!! It is in my opinion it is one of the cars for the class, the other being a Volvo.

When we first started building the Audi's for Road Racing in ITB everyone sort of giggled and asked what the hell are you doing, BIG $$$ and you will never be competitive. We didn't care and did the "slow build" process over 4 years with 2 cars testing allsorts of different stuff. (Not many people actually build stuff for Audi Road Racing Cars so we had to build most everything our selves)

The end result:
This season

So far with the #50 Audi coupe driven by Stephen Blethen we have been very successful winning the first 5 races and finishing 2nd in the 6th race. (There have been 8 races in the series however one was canceled and we also did not enter one). The championship is pretty much clinched (but not over yet).

With the #51 Audi Coupe driven by Raymond Blethen we ran with old suspension and finished 5th in the first race skipped the second race to put in suspension in then finished 2nd in the next two races. We then were doomed with mechanical issues in the next two events. With all of that we are still in points battle for 2nd place in the North Atlantic Road Racing Championship season. We are hoping to finish 1, 2 in the end.

To see all the results and competition that we have faced go to:

http://www.rstperformance.com/seasonpoints.htm

Other things to note... Choosing a car has a lot to keep in mind, one thing that is overlooked many times is what type of tracks you race on.

With the Audi's we have defiantly noticed advantages at longer tracks that require more muscle. And we have noticed a distinct disadvantage at tracks that are tighter and twistier, however this season we have proven that the cars are capable of winning at any track. New Hampshire International Speedway is a very tight twisty track (with the newly added Quaife) Stephen was able to turn very fast lap times and has found himself in the winner's circle twice (once with the Quaife and once without it) and in 2nd place once. At Lime Rock Park a less twisty momentum track that requires a "good" handling car Stephen also found himself in victory circle (no Quaife at this point) At Pocono International Speedway a very fast wide open track where muscle rules we were able to run both cars about 2 seconds a lap faster than any one else.

Here is another thing that you might find interesting... we have probably less $$$ invested in our Audi's than most of our completion has invested in their cars. We have done little to no modifications to the engines (I would sell ours for $400.00-$500.00 and simply get another one and I would probably make out with an extra $50.00, which I will put towards pizza for the crew for pulling the motor!!!)

The only major investments that we have made in the cars are for suspension... and that was relatively inexpensive considering how much other people spend (We were able to make deals with Koni Racing USA and are now a supplier). We also invested in a Quaife (which we are a supplier for and would be glad to share the deals) in one of the cars... that increased lap times by 1-1.5 seconds a lap at NHIS, but we have not tested it anywhere else.

So I am a very strong advocate for the Audi... across the country there seems to be a lot of Audi cars being built for competition however they never seem to make it out to the track... If you have further questions PLEASE do not hesitate to post questions here or e-mail us rst@rstperformance.com or call us. Oh and be sure to visit our website www.rstperformance.com !!! (There are not a lot of products NOT listed there but we have the resources to build a complete car with relatively little $$$, after all we have built and designed everything on our cars and been very successful).

PS: were do you live? If you are anywhere near southern NH then feel free to make a visit to check out our cars!!!

Raymond Blethen
RST Performance Racing
www.rstperformance.com

PSS: A good source for info regarding SCCA IT racing is www.improvedtouring.com

John/TSR

First, I'll disagree with previous posters about appearance and age of cars.

If you're going Club Racing (and most organizations that call themselves "pro" are really just club racing), don't sweat the shiny perfect race car rules. I've raced with SCCA, NASA, EMRA, MidWest Council, etc, and the scurfiest old war wagons are on SCCA IT grids. They've earned - and show - their scars. Every series has their 'neat and pretty' rule, but as long as the car passes the "50-50 Appearance Test" (50 ft. away at 50mph), it's OK to go. Some tracks and regions have a 25-25 rules, some just require that the car isn't wrinkled and isn't in primer.

Age is really only an issue in Showroom Stock, not in IT. There are 30+ year old cars still running competitively in IT. No cars fall out of IT if they're still competing. The half-life of an IT car is 3.17625 years, so you don't have to worry about any of your potential choices turning into a pumpkin while you're racing.

Advice: Go to a couple of races, and buy one of what there are the most of. Could be Honda, could be Mazda, could be VW. This is important for several reasons: 1. Probably a good supply of race parts available 2. Thee will be a good knowledge base for making them go fast 3. There will be a good source of parts at the track when you break/crash/explode something.

In ITA and ITC, there are a sea of Hondas. Good choice. There are also a sea of various generations of RX-7's. 1st gen are cheaper to live with, as the 2nd gen cars are getting pricy to keep competitive. BMW 318's and 320's are good reliable choices in ITB, but there are still some big cannons in Volvo 142's and VW Rabbit/Golf GTI's. Toyota's are a struggle. Audi's are a struggle (there are even some posters on this board who run ITB Audi's, but they needed/used considerable talent and effort to make them run fast. 10 years ago the guys running Audi's in ITB were just exploding things. I'd keep away from 240Z's, etc. as they are expensive to make fast, and good shells are getting rare (I should know...I have a street one and a race one).

I'm partial to VW's, as I've had 4 IT VW race cars and they were all easy to live with. I've also had IT cars that were a pain in the *** (Volvo 142's). If you're just starting out, buy something that assures you maximum track time &amp; minimum pain in the ***. Forget winning big right out of the box, 'cuz your gonna get smoked by the Big Kids in the class. Get seat time.

Another vote here for "Buy something already built". You can buy an IT car for 30-70 cents on the dollar of what it cost to build, and it will already be kinda sorted, hopefully.

eMKay (BFLO)

I thought it would be cool to build a 4000 or coupe race car. and now that you guys have found out what works, that makes it easier for me. BTW, the main track I will be using is Watkins Glen, I'm sure you are aware of the power needs there with all the elevation changes. You guys offer rentals for when I need to get my license?

eMKay (BFLO)

I'm not looking to dominate anything, and some of the cars here are lucky to finish a race, so I'm pretty sure I won't be last :}