330iGuy

It sounds like you both have quite a bit of experience and are very quick. As I enjoy nothing better than going up against the best, I'd like to make a friendly challenge.

I'd like to take you guys on at a handling track I have some familiarity with (Sears Point, Thunderhill, or Buttonwillow [in any of the twisty configurations]) in the same car. As I'm only now learning to drive a stick (bought a '85 Supra as a daily driver a month ago), it'll have to be an automatic. It can be my 330i (when it's back from the shop), or it can any of the various rentals I bring to the track...or some automatic you bring to the track.. Best lap time in the clear wins.

The stakes, $10 and bragging rights in the Audiworld forum.

NASA racer

Dude, I have a trophy ROOM. Win a few dozen races, set some lap records and maybe a championship or two and I might consider it.

I certainly don't have anything to "prove" and I'm trying to help you guys who don't have the experience I have (like Michael).

Seriously dude, you are nuts if you think you could step into a car and lap a race track as fast as me...where do you think my sig pics come from...the internet?

330iGuy

NASA,

I'm sure I'd lose to you in a _race_. But this ain't a race, and you won't be driving a race car. You'll be in a street car and it'll be a time trial. I like my chances. And if I lose, at least I'll know how much more I can squeeze out of my driving. So, think of this as an educational opportunity. School me.

John/TSR

Time for a spanking:

Pretty damn irresponsible. You're gonna take on the unknown in a street car for fast lap ??? Anybody who does this is either very stupid or has some real emotional problems.

If you want to race, RACE. With a race car. With proper safety equipment. Enough poseur crap.

I'm Chief Instructor for several schools, and if I even had the slightest idea that there was any match racing going on at a DE event, I'd throw those participants out on their fu(&ing ears.

330iGuy

And if the safety equipment in a rental is not sufficient, we have my 330i with (soon) a rollbar, 5-pt. harness, and fire extinguisher.

NASA racer

luck?

I have a lap record for Formula Mazdas at Riverside which stood until the track was torn down...that was in a qualifying session. Could it actually be that you don't understand that one learns to drive faster than other people on the way to becomming a racing driver? You realize I was an assistant instructor at Jim Russell for two years right?...figure I just sat on my thumbs learning nothing? They sort of put me there for decoration not because I might know something about driving?

Several problems with your scheme, 1 it would VERY expensive for me to go to Sears Point or T-hill or even Buttonwillow to do this, 2. My co-driver and best friend is an area manager for Enterprise and what you are doing is illegal and you would be prosecuted (if they found out) and I wouldn't want to participate in that sort of abuse of a rental car (which I also wouldn't risk my life in lapping a race track). 3. Under what circumstances can one simply show up and use a track? Even an open day at Buttonwillow requires 2.5 hours of driving each way, $150 per car and $100 per driver a hotel etc...etc. Though the idea mildly amuses me, it's just not the sort of thing I would want to spend my time to do since I can have races with dedicated guys with experience and licenses whenever I want.

I race for my recreation and what you are talking about would be an expensive waste of my time. I have NO DOUBT I would be faster because I have 20 years of training and experience driving everything from Toyota Celica celebrity cars, Karts, Formula Fords, Formula Mazdas, Formula Super Vees, Formula Atlantics and "lowly" sedan race cars. I have a 33+% win to start ratio and in my FF and FM days raced against guys like Johnny O'Connel and Jeff Krostnoff and RK Smith and won many races with them (and lost some too) so have confidence in my ability from both my professional instructors and my results over the years.

I can tell that you actually believe you are a faster driver than me and that's a shame because you will have a hard time learning how far you would need to come to get me since you figure you are already there.

Now if you'd like to pay me $1000/day for instruction that's a different matter entirely.

I'm actually not as big of a ***** as you might imagine but I earned my place and am secure in understanding exactly where that place is. I love to take the time to help folks who are getting started (ask Michael) and enjoy instructing (though I quit instructing because of the number of folks who tried to kill me in their cars).

I paid my dues...if you want to race me, you gotta pay your dues too.

snoogins

Well said...I hope he heard you.

330iGuy

NASA,

We could do this at a NASA event. They rent transponders in HPDE. I wouldn't dream of doing this at a BMW CCA or Quattro Club event or any other "normal" school event. But 10/10ths (and 11/10ths) is the norm for NASA group 4, which is a cross between open track and (occasionally) full-on racing, and not truly "school."

At any rate, I can't afford $1000/hr. for instruction, but I'd be happy to have you come for a ride with me sometime. And I'd love to go for a ride in your Honda.

As for who's really faster. I feel confident that I can push an understeering, body-rolling street car fast around the track. That's where I think I might have the edge...approaching 10,000 miles of track time in body-rolling pigs. Even my "track" 330i has enough body roll to make it very disconcerting for experienced racers.

By the way, is it really true that taking a rental car to the track is _illegal_? It's fairly common practice, and I've seen responsible instructors and event organizers do it. Now, I can understand rental agencies prohibiting this, but is there really a law against it? And does it make a distinction between "racing" and "lapping?"

KKelly

"Toyota Celica celebrity cars". How did you get this gig? Would be fun to smoke Jason Priestly.

As I sit and listen to war stories of instructors it can be quite humbling. These guys are pretty good drivers and then will tell a story about hiring a guy for $1k a day to give them lessons (usually a pro). That guy will take their cars and in one session beat their best lap by 5 seconds.

I think what NASA was trying to say below was that there is a place that is just another level--well beyond weekend-warrior stuff. I play competitive soccer and there are a few ex-NASL guys still playing, most in their mid-fifties. When they want to, they can just absolutely humiliate and humble 20 year olds (though usually only for about 20 minutes:-)). They have and can play at another level---which is probrably the reason someone paid them to play.

KKelly

It may be more of a breach of contract than crime